Jack Dalton: Is he Jack Sr. Or Jack Jr.??
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Schmendrick
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 02:42 AM                                    
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Okay, I am thoroughly confused:

Point 1: in the season 3 episode, "Rock The Cradle", the character Katie keeps referring to the baby as "Jack Jr." Even Jack occasionally refers to him as "Jack Jr." Which, theoretically, would make Jack Dalton "Jack Sr." Even though (spoiler) the baby turned out to not be his after all.

Point 2: in the season 4 episode, "Ma Dalton", everyone seems to refer to Jack Dalton himself as "Jack Jr." Then they show pictures of Jack's dad, and call him "Jack Sr."

What gives??? What is canon here?

 
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Schmendrick
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 02:44 AM                                    
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Forgot to subscribe to the thread.

 
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Jediferret
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 02:58 AM                                    
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It's most likely an oversight, which seems to happen often in the show. But Jack wasn't the father anyway, so it's not even really a canon issue. Even if it was, Katie probably wasn't aware that Jack was already a Jr when she named the kid. Also, most of the audience wasn't aware of this until Ma Dalton, and probably Jack wasn't aware of this himself until he started getting more info on his real father.

But most likely, an oversight by the writers.

 
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Schmendrick
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 03:00 AM                                    
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But still, the canonical question remains: is he Jack Dalton Jr., or just Jack Dalton?

 
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Jediferret
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 03:13 AM                                    
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Sounds like he's a Jr. I'd just go with that.

 
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MacGyverGod
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 04:09 AM                                    
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Ma Dalton and Rock the Cradle are both written by John Whelpley. The baby Mac and Jack found is not Jack's kid. His name is Jack though and that fact used Katie to get the help she needed. In the end it doesn't really matter, since he's not the father so in Ma Dalton it's perfectly possible for Jack to be Jack Jr.

 
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KiwiTek
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 07:35 AM                                    
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The answer is in our Character Bios.

Katies naming of the baby has nothing to do with Jacks family tree or his position in it, so not sure where the confusing comes from? unsure.gif


Snr. and Jr. is subjective isn't it? If Jr has a child that doesn't make him Snr. in his parents family tree, it's makes him Snr in his own family tree. In other words he's Snr to his children but not to his parents; same with Jack.


 
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Schmendrick
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 10:05 AM                                    
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Right, but follow my logic here: if Jack knew he was a Jr. from his own father (albeit in a future season), shouldn't he have corrected Katie and let her know that the boy is not actually Jack Jr., he is actually Jack III since Jack is already a junior? But yet he still constantly refers to the boy as Jack Jr. I guess I am just trying to establish canon, and it sounds as though the canon is that Jack is actually Jack Dalton Jr., and if he were to have a son that he named Jack, it would correctly be Jack Dalton III.


. . . is that right?

 
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MacGyverGod
Posted: 15 October 2015 - 11:14 AM                                    
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Sounds like complicating things needlessly. If Jack found out about his dad in season 3 instead of season 4 and before Rock The Cradle we'd have a different situation on our hands and even so not until some DNA test proofs otherwise. Than maybe we'd have Jack Dalton III but only than. Only I wouldn't be too happy if I find out my girlfriend named my kid to an ex-lover. I'd like to give it at least my last name. And Dalton don't count as a middle name. Just imagine Jack Dalton and whatever Carlo's last name is. That would just be so unfair towards Carlo.

There's nothing canon about it because there isn't. It wasn't his kid so it don't matter. There is no connection between the two episodes either.

If it was actually proven it was his kid we'd have Jack Dalton III. If Jack Dalton is a Jr., you probably can't call your kid Jack Dalton Jr. Jr.

 
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KiwiTek
Posted: 16 October 2015 - 01:45 PM                                    
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Your logic only applies if the baby had a last name of Dalton, which he didn't. So therefore he belongs to a different family tree.


More importantly though in the context of the episode Jack Jr. seemed to be a nick name (and a story telling device) to both reflect that he was named after Jack and imply that he was Jacks son.


And lets be honest, do you really think after just finding out he was an unexpected father, he would be worrying about details like this? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't.

We also need to consider that jack has never been called Jack Jr. He grew up with foster parents who would never have used that name, so it's really only used to define his position in his family tree rather than as his name, which woudl make it even further from his mind.


And yes Jack's full designated name is Jack Dalton Jr.



 
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denizen
Posted: 16 October 2015 - 04:37 PM                                    
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Still, I see where Schmendrick is coming from. IMO, the answer is yes.

Technically. If the baby was in fact Jacks son, then he would have been referred to as Jack III despite him having a different surname. But as everyone has so eloquently put it, the episode was written prior to the Jack Sr episode and it could have been overseen.

Also, the story only focused on Jack and his possible son which meant that relevance only played the part of the two characters. Had he mentioned at this stage that he was in fact named after his father, the audience would no doubt want to know more about Jacks father as opposed to his possible son. But this would have made the story lose focus on what they wanted you to pay attention to.

 
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KiwiTek
Posted: 16 October 2015 - 11:49 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Schmendrick @ 15 October 2015 - 02:42 AM)
Okay, I am thoroughly confused:

Point 1: in the season 3 episode, "Rock The Cradle",  the character Katie keeps referring to the baby as "Jack Jr." Even Jack occasionally refers to him as "Jack Jr." Which, theoretically, would make Jack Dalton "Jack Sr." Even though (spoiler) the baby turned out to not be his after all.

Point 2: in the season 4 episode, "Ma Dalton", everyone seems to refer to Jack Dalton himself as "Jack Jr." Then they show pictures of Jack's dad, and call him "Jack Sr."

What gives??? What is canon here?

Ohhhh.... doh.gif

As Denizin just pointed out..

Jack didn't know he was a Junior until season 4. That's why he didn't mention it in season 3.

He grew up knowing nothing about his father or mother as explained in his bio.



 
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