How was that implied?

Murdoc told the kid to put his headphones on and close his eyes. Also Murdoc was the one who picked up the pencil sharpener.

I thought it was great, and my favorite part was the way that it's implied that Baby Murdoc killed someone with a pencil sharpener. Just *money.* Whoever came up with that idea deserves a chocolate chip cookie.

Although, I think it's really sweet that Murdoc is trying to protect Cassian by having him put on headphones, et cetera. He's a good daddy.

Definitely think that Dennis (which is how I will henceforth be referring to him) was the MVP of the episode. I wish that we'd had more interaction between him and Sexy Helman. (Don't judge me; I have to have a way to differentiate him from the original Helman, don't I?) I'm just glad to see MDB showing up at all, and they could still bring him back if they played their cards right, but I think that the entire storyline with Sexy Helman could've been handled better and that they should've had a real showdown instead of that anticlimactic ending. I think that Helman in all his incarnations is much more talented than this episode gave him credit for, and as cool as Dennis is, he's just not that good.

But yeah, seeing Dennis unleashed always puts me in a good mood. He's so funny!

Did anyone else catch the way that Jack Attack kept referring to Dennis as "Doc?" It reminded me of Jediferret's theory that "Murdoc" could be short for "Murder Doctor." Maybe she's onto something!

Addendum: I think I still prefer "Eddie" for the original Murdoc. Somehow it seems to suit him.

Murdoc looked kinda unemotional while hugging his son. I think he's not used to feeling/showing any emotion, but I truly believe that he loves Cassian very much. I think the way Cassian threw his arms around his dad's neck proves that. Oh the warm feelings...

So Murdoc's story about his dad... I can't quite remember all the dialogue, but it sounded like his dad might've abused him, which explains a lot. And when he discussed Helman... Did anyone else notice he looked a little teary-eyed when discussing how Helman "left him for the sake of love"?

I find it funny how Murdoc said (about Helman) "He had burns over 75% of his body. It's a miracle he survived". Anyone else think it might be a reference?

And I'm thinking that Helman will be back. MDB seems pretty adamant that he can't die, LOL.

How was that implied?

Murdoc told the kid to put his headphones on and close his eyes. Also Murdoc was the one who picked up the pencil sharpener.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I meant New Murdoc when I said Baby Murdoc. I was just being tongue-in-cheek about it. I was talking about Murdoc using the pencil sharpener, not Cassian.

Yes, I agree that the implication of abuse was there. I'm suspecting that perhaps his mother was abused as well, because so far New Murdoc hasn't mentioned any problems with his mother and he made an off-handed comment to Jack in the car about how his mother always told him he was special. Also, he was very clear to specify that he killed his own father, not his own parents, which to me implies that he had no problems with his mother. But I could be reading too much into that. Wouldn't be the first time.

I noticed that too! It explained a lot for me, because up until that point, I was wondering what would have caused New Murdoc to be willing to turn on someone so important to him, even if it was something that he was ordered to do.

I thought about that too!

I am one of those who gave up on the show early and was planning checking this one out. I work at night so watching it when it aired was never an option. Than reading disappointing reactions on here made think twice to even bother. I started watching it on the CBS app and remembered I do not like most of the supporting cast and stopped. I might try again.

I got to say CBS used a little bit of false advertising to sell this as "Murdoc vs Murdoc". It's a reboot so of course Michael is not playing Murdoc. It's strange to learn this episode was not written for Michael but they knew enough to name a character who taught Murdoc Nicholas Helman.

I honestly not sure what I would expect the best way to use Michael on this reboot would be. I would not have expected him to shout "MacGyver!". He is a different character but hearing he had so little to do or say is disappointing. What if they revealed "Murdoc" was a codename for different assassins that passed on to the current guy? That would have justified the advertising. Maybe next time if Michael really does come back...

That could work because in an earlier episode Murdoc was asked what his name is and his response was something along the lines of "I go by many names, but I've always be partial to Murdoc."

So yes it could be a code name.

I might have to at least watch the previous episodes with Murdoc to catch up on this new version.

On expectations on Michael Des Barres appearance to causing ratings to rise - Maybe it would encourage casual viewers to be sure to not miss this particular episode. But fans of the previous series who gave up on this new incarnation or never watched it at all? I do not think it was likely do to that given the serial nature of this show. Like most current tv series.

I could pull up any of Murdoc's episodes of the orignal show on CBS ALL Access and not feel lost.It does not matter what happened the previous episode that season without him. It was episodic.

That is not singling out just this series. It's almost all tv now. If this had been more designed to bring in new viewers the whole episode should have been geared toward Murdoc and Helman. Leaving the other storylines paused to the next week.

You know, I wonder if that's why they waited so long to announce MDB's guest appearance. Because they knew he didn't exactly have the biggest role, and they didn't want to leave everyone disappointed? Then when all the pictures started circulating, they were just like, "Fine. Let's announce it. Everyone knows anyway."

I'm kinda bummed that the promotional picture (you know, the one where Dastmalchian looks scared of MDB) was not an actual scene in the episode. I wanted to know what was going on in that pic, Maybe it's a deleted scene? Or it was never intended to be more than promotion, and I'm just reading into it too deep, which is a problem I've always had.

Yes, I agree that the implication of abuse was there. I'm suspecting that perhaps his mother was abused as well, because so far New Murdoc hasn't mentioned any problems with his mother and he made an off-handed comment to Jack in the car about how his mother always told him he was special. Also, he was very clear to specify that he killed his own father, not his own parents, which to me implies that he had no problems with his mother. But I could be reading too much into that. Wouldn't be the first time.

I noticed that too! It explained a lot for me, because up until that point, I was wondering what would have caused New Murdoc to be willing to turn on someone so important to him, even if it was something that he was ordered to do.

It makes me feel so sentimental towards New Murdoc, LOL. I wonder if/when we'll see more of Murdoc's past... It's kinda tough, actually, because whenever he does talk about his past, I can't decide if he's telling the truth or not.

I think the abuse from his dad might be true, at least, since that would explain a lot about Murdoc's behavior nowadays. It kinda makes Murdoc's behavior toward his son a little more understandable, too. He's not going to show much emotion, but he does care.Maybe because he never got much love from his own dad, he doesn't really quite know how to show it to Cassian, or maybe he just didn't want to show it while the guard was still standing there, watching them. At least he seems to be trying to do the right thing, even if his own father never did.

Murdoc is so thought provoking... LOL.

He's sure one of the most interesting characters in the show - at least for me

Though he clearly shows sociopathic/psychopathic behavior, he's somewhat capable of feeling and interpreting feelings - and caring for something/someone (if it serves his purpose, probably). He just doesn't seem to understand the concept of (romantic) love and is still confused why Helman quit his job for a woman.

He's sure one of the most interesting characters in the show - at least for me

Though he clearly shows sociopathic/psychopathic behavior, he's somewhat capable of feeling and interpreting feelings - and caring for something/someone (if it serves his purpose, probably). He just doesn't seem to understand the concept of (romantic) love and is still confused why Helman quit his job for a woman.

Well, he DID have a son, so... I guess he must have known SOMETHING about romance. I think he did have a thing for her, even if he denies it. Oh well... Maybe one day, we'll find out.

I thought the heart-to-heart he had with MacGvyer was a bit strange. He actually looked like he cared a bit when he asked, "Did you ever figure out WHY your dad abandoned you?". He's GOT to know something about Mac's dad. To be honest, I'm half-expecting him to say something in a future episode like, "I lied. I didn't kill my dad. In fact, he ran off and met this other girl and had you. He sure treated you better than he did me." Oh... poor Mac!

To be completely honest, I sometimes forget that Murdoc's psycho. He feels emotion, but he doesn't want anyone to know, so he hides it. Of course, I get that he doesn't feel emotion the traditional way, but I sometimes have doubts about his relationship with Cassian.

I think the best proof that he does love his son is his reaction in "Hole Puncher" when Matty blackmails him. He starts off pretending not to care, but once Matty calls his bluff, he gets pretty mad. Normally he gets cocky when challenged, even if he loses, like in "Corkscrew", so I think his rage could only be for Cassian's sake. Especially because the next words out of his mouth were, "You're threatening a CHILD?!". He said this DIRECTLY after saying he's too much of an unfeeling, big bad hitman to care about kids.

Final ratings are in: http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/show...s-2-2-2018.html

the audience numbers adjusted up; the 0.9 rating stayed. of all 15 S2 episodes, it has the 5th-highest audience numbers. so, definitely not bad!

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Even if it's not official, I'm sure season 3 is on it's way!

Me neither. It's so... "ordinary". It would go well with "Helman" though - if they were related

Do you know what's sad? Every time I hear Helman, I just want to sing the Hellman's mayo jingle....

Bring out the Hellman's and bring out the best!

And this Helman definitely is the best!

I noticed some of the writers claiming that Dennis might not even be Murdoc's real name. Are they this determined to mess with us?

I'm kinda worried for Cage - she told Mac to catch Murdoc for her and just like that, they revealed to him she's actually not dead. And then, they let him escape. That's not how you treat your Team Phoenix Members?

Murdoc seems to be the type of person who's proud of finishing his "jobs". I'm pretty sure he doesn't like "unfinished business" and will try again. I guess Phoenix and Oversight won't mind if Murdoc finishes off some of the former members of his collection before they catch him again, but he's still a threat for Cage and others.

We still don't know why Murdoc shot her (e.g. if she was a "job" or if it was just personal), which was a bit disappointing. It never made much sense to me that he just shot her without his typical taunting game. If he had wanted to use her to hurt Mac and the others, why didn't he kidnap her; trying to use her as bait and send the others on a rescue mission (even if maybe there wasn't anyone to rescue anymore)? He shot her two times, so there has to be something more. I always thought Murdoc would be in the Season Finale and the secret about Cage being revealed as well, but I don't think Murdoc will be back this season and I'm starting to doubt Isabel is coming back, so I wonder if we'll ever know the story behind it.

Yeah, that definitely wasn't Mac's smartest move. Did you see how surprised Murdoc was when he found out? Definitely not guy who's used to failing.

I'm guessing that the thing with Murdoc and Cage was personal. I think he just likes doing things to prove that he can. He was taunting Mac when he shot her the first time---basically a message saying, "Oh, look, I can take out your team member and there's nothing you can do to stop me." And he did do a little bit of taunting to Cage when he first went after her. Remember when they were talking over the radio, and she called his bluff only to find out that he wasn't bluffing? And then when he got her the second time, he made that snarky comment about how she wasn't wearing a vest anymore. I think he went after Cage just for the pure enjoyment and the thought of getting to MacGyver.

Looks like MDB's up for a return, even if no one else is.

What episode are they filming now? Maybe Murdoc and/or Cage will be back for the season finale? Or maybe not, but I think we'll find out Cage's secret at some point.

I think Matty's just a TAD bit overconfident. That's the second time she underestimated Murdoc and he escaped. Come on, guys! Surely you could have done better than that! I mean, ONE GUARD?!

Yeah, I know that's what everybody says, and for once I agree with the complaints that this show could stand to be more realistic. It's hard to believe Murdoc's a master when he escapes from these situations. I probably could, too. Maybe...

I'm not sure if Murdoc will go after Cage again, at least not right away. Too obvious. He's more into chasing down Mac or Matty. But if it's personal, we might see them battle it out again.

I've also heard some complaints about the "collective" appearing to be leading up to something and then falling apart in this episode. I wonder if Murdoc will try to rebuild it, but with different members who are actually willing to be part of his crew.

Not sure - they're either working on 2x20 or 2x21.

Lenkov sad in an interview in January (with Matt Carter) when asked if Murdoc will show up again: He is in a big episode coming up. One more.

So, if he meant 2x15, that was it.

Isabel Lucas is still in Australia right now. If she's going to show up in the Season Finale, she should hop on a flight soon... very soon. Also, I don't know if the "real" Season Finale will be 2x22 or 2x23. They did order an additional episode, but maybe the last episode was always meant as a filler episode (e.g. Cairo). I don't know if the additional episode was a script they've already written or if they ordered an extra script which maybe doesn't fit the main storyline (since the season finale had already been written months ago).

I've always assumed that Murdoc or his collective (including The Ghost) will be in the Season Finale as the "big bad". It would have been an easy way to bring them back in Season 3 because of course, not every member will get caught right away.

Now I'm not sure. Maybe they felt the collective would not be that different from the Organization that was the "big bad" of the Season 1 Finale, but I think with the collection already being dispersed and "The Teacher" and maybe even Helman out of the picture, they dismissed a huge opportunity for interesting villains.

Unless Matty *wants* him to escape. After all the two of them do have this cat-and-mouse thing going on... And also, she may be hiding some pertinent info from Baby Mac, and I haven't seen every episode of the original yet, but wasn't the character Matt Webber from the original show a bad guy? Granted, that doesn't mean much considering that they turned Pete Thornton into an evil woman, but *still.* Doesn't exactly add any points in her favor.

I've also been wondering if Cage could be Ashton. Even though New Murdoc shot her, I'm still not convinced that she couldn't be Ashton somehow. Definitely don't trust her.

I've mentioned this before on threads for other reboot episodes, but I just think that none of the Phoenix crew seem to understand Murdoc very well. Or bad guys in general. They need someone from the BAU from "Criminal Minds" to crossover and set them straight. Baby MacGyver's only just now figuring out that Murdoc tells lies. That's a problem. Also, despite having psychopathic tendencies, New Murdoc is probably not actually a psychopath according to the DSM-V definition, so that's something else that I'm not quite sure they get. There are a lot of things that I like about this show, but the way that the Phoenix crew handles their baddies---not one of them. Seems to me like they can catch your standard thugs, but when it comes to people who are talented, they lose more often than they win.

Whether they decide to go with "the Organization" or with "the collective," they need to do *something* with at least one of those plotlines, because seeing both criminal factions going nowhere is going to turn into a let-down really fast. Maybe they could even have Murdoc's "collective" fighting the Organization for control/power/territory/jobs/etc. Like that time that the Daleks and the Cybermen fought in Doctor Who, and the good guys had to figure out how to pick a side and what to do with the winners.

Also, I'd really like them to just reveal at least one of these groups of baddies as HIT, because A. I really want to see that sweet little throwback, B. "The Organization" is just too generic, and C. I can't take "the collective" seriously because all I can think about when they say that is the Borg. Can you picture a half-robotic Murdoc saying "Resistance is Futile?"

Unless Matty *wants* him to escape. After all the two of them do have this cat-and-mouse thing going on... And also, she may be hiding some pertinent info from Baby Mac, and I haven't seen every episode of the original yet, but wasn't the character Matt Webber from the original show a bad guy? Granted, that doesn't mean much considering that they turned Pete Thornton into an evil woman, but *still.* Doesn't exactly add any points in her favor.

I've also been wondering if Cage could be Ashton. Even though New Murdoc shot her, I'm still not convinced that she couldn't be Ashton somehow. Definitely don't trust her.

I've mentioned this before on threads for other reboot episodes, but I just think that none of the Phoenix crew seem to understand Murdoc very well. Or bad guys in general. They need someone from the BAU from "Criminal Minds" to crossover and set them straight. Baby MacGyver's only just now figuring out that Murdoc tells lies. That's a problem. Also, despite having psychopathic tendencies, New Murdoc is probably not actually a psychopath according to the DSM-V definition, so that's something else that I'm not quite sure they get. There are a lot of things that I like about this show, but the way that the Phoenix crew handles their baddies---not one of them. Seems to me like they can catch your standard thugs, but when it comes to people who are talented, they lose more often than they win.

Yeah, original Matt was evil, and you may have a point. Matty's definitely a little suspicious sometimes, although she does seem to really care for the phoenix team. Maybe if she did want Murdoc to escape, she has some plan for the good in mind? Though I can't imagine what that would be, I'd be pretty surprised if she were to do something that could get her team killed...

I'd really like Cage to be Ashton. Murdoc might not even be aware if she is, or he just may not be so "family oriented" as the original was.

Not sure - they're either working on 2x20 or 2x21.

Lenkov sad in an interview in January (with Matt Carter) when asked if Murdoc will show up again: He is in a big episode coming up. One more.

So, if he meant 2x15, that was it.

Isabel Lucas is still in Australia right now. If she's going to show up in the Season Finale, she should hop on a flight soon... very soon. Also, I don't know if the "real" Season Finale will be 2x22 or 2x23. They did order an additional episode, but maybe the last episode was always meant as a filler episode (e.g. Cairo). I don't know if the additional episode was a script they've already written or if they ordered an extra script which maybe doesn't fit the main storyline (since the season finale had already been written months ago).

I always kinda wondered if he meant that 2x15 would be the last time this season that Murdoc will show up. Personally, I don't think that's too bad, since it seems the show's being renewed for season 3. Can't always focus on Murdoc, after all.