The 3 un-named men?
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MacGyverOnline
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 01:30 AM                                    
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I've just made an interesting discovery....

In Deathlock we see Quayle getting his assignment from 3 un-named men.

In Silent world we see Crain being hired by 3 un-named men.

In both episodes its the same men. A quick look up in IMDb shows the same actors where used in both episodes.

So this raises the question... Is this "organization" (as the men call it) the HIT that Murdoc worked for?

I know many shows through history have had good guys working for one organisation and the bad guys working for the other, so I wonder if the writers where planning to do it with MacGyver as well, or if it was just a convenient explanation for the writers



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Amy
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 02:39 AM                                    
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That's an interesting catch. In a way, I think maybe it makes sense to assume that... In Strictly Business, Murdoc meets with 3 unnamed people, and they do say that MacGyver's been a pain for years, which doesn't necessarily mean that Murdoc's been the only one failing to nab him for that long. What doesn't seem viable is that in Silent World The goal is to steal the missile system, not eliminate MacGyver. HIT exists to murder, not steal.

HIT is mentioned in Partners, isn't it? Maybe this "organization" was a precursor or something?



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Posted: 26 September 2007 - 08:09 AM                                    
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The "3 unnamed men" could very well be considered a precursor to HIT- that's a pretty neat theory. Even if HIT isn't what the writers had in mind for the "Deathlock" and "Silent World" episodes, they may have drawn on those episodes when creating HIT in later Murdoc episodes.
In any case, though the name of Murdoc's group IS Homicide International Trust - I'm sure they could've branched out to steal a missile system while they're at it.
I imagine murders for hire is their speciality, but they may have other operations going on too. And I guess Murdoc was their specialist on dealing with MacGyver. Of course, I think it's also definitely a personal vendetta for Murdoc as well, back since the events of "Partners". I think HIT just played on this fact and rubbed it in Murdoc's face by demanding that he take out MacGyver in "Strictly Business" in order to get back into their good graces.
Of course, if anyone from other episodes was gonna be in HIT, I would think Piedra from "The Assassin" would've made the cut. He was about as vicious as Murdoc! But of course, MacGyver beats them both! smile.gif



 
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Lothithil
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 08:35 AM                                    
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I've occasionally considered the same question. hmm.bmp

The ThUGs (Three Unnamed Guys) from the early seasons had accents that suggested that they represented different countries. The "I" in H.I.T. stands for 'international', so...

wink.gif Makes sense to me!

I've often wondered if the person or persons who put the contract out for MacGyver after he blew up that 'installation' in the episode 'Target:MacGyver' might have belonged to this shadowy organization... and why, after Axminster failed, nobody actively persued the contract. Taking into consideration that a series of episodes of MacGyver thrashing would-be assassins might get a little predictable after a while ... (tho I'd love every minute of it! happy.gif ) ... perhaps the writers of the show dictated that the ThUGs would deem MacGyver 'too formidable' and canceled the contract, afraid that if they persued it he would eventually expose them.

If I was a secret organization, I wouldn't want someone with as much curiosity, ingenuity, and stamina as MacGyver, not to mention luck, to come hunting for me! cool.jpg



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MacGyverGod
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 09:07 AM                                    
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I never thought of this, interesting though.

However the whole HIT thing was never mentioned before Halloween Knights (or maybe briefly in Partners) and the distance between Deathlock, Silent World and Halloween Knights is just to big to be connected to each other.

I merely think it's just a coincidence that it's the same men in Silent World as in Deathlock. Just another need for actors, let's recycle the old ones.

Just a question: Why was Quayle not allowed to see his superiors while David Crane was?

I don't think Quayle or Crane actually worked for HIT. They're not deadly enough. Quayle likes too play to much and is too much of a 'scum' like Mac said, and Crane is not a murderer but a professional thief.

Besides the whole HIT story is too dark for that and them. HIT really trains their men to kill. Murdoc and Piedra are real killers and worked much alike with disguises.

QUOTE
In Strictly Business, Murdoc meets with 3 unnamed people

I think the woman was Sonia, but been in the sun too long. After all Sonia said she would become the chairman of the board after Nicholas died. Two years later a woman was still the chairman. Of course the name is not mentioned but I think it's very doubtful another woman took over Sonia's place. And who knows maybe the other two men were also at the party of that Halloween night.

The idea however of HIT being the shadow of Phoenix like Murdoc is as MacGyver evil self is interesting. Phoenix does everything to make a world a better place with researches of the environment, wild life, nature, righting the wrongs and enjoys the recognition of the public and HIT being infamous as a shadow organization who kills, steals and does everything from the crime world to make the world more miserable.

I think however if HIT would become as big as Phoenix, I don't think Phoenix has much else to do but to keep HIT low and there wouldn't be any time anymore for other assignments and researches.



I think the poison that was used was applied to this knife, passed to the mutton when it was cut and then activated by the wine. - MacGyver.
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MacNymph
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 01:10 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Rockatteer @ 26 September 2007 - 10:05 PM)
So this raises the question... Is this "organization" (as the men call it) the HIT that Murdoc worked for? 

If they were, that makes their performance in Halloween Knights even more pitiful. That would make two more plots foiled and another assassin down due to MacGyver. And they don't know who he is? huh.gif

QUOTE (MGod)
the distance between Deathlock, Silent World and Halloween Knights is just to big to be connected to each other.


Huh?

QUOTE (MGod)
I don't think Quayle or Crane actually worked for HIT. They're not deadly enough. Quayle likes too play to much and is too much of a 'scum' like Mac said, and Crane is not a murderer but a professional thief.


Did Murdoc actually ever kill anyone? hmm.bmp

I know the thief did.




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MacGyverOnline
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 01:43 PM                                    
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QUOTE (MacNymph @ 27 September 2007 - 09:45 AM)
Did Murdoc actually ever kill anyone?  hmm.bmp 

roller.gif

Only himself!!



QUOTE (MacGyverGod)
I don't think Quayle or Crane actually worked for HIT. They're not deadly enough. Quayle likes too play to much and is too much of a 'scum' like Mac said, and Crane is not a murderer but a professional thief.


I thought the way Crane shot his co-worker was pretty deadly. He never even hesitated.
But your right that was first and foremost a thief.



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Lothithil
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 01:50 PM                                    
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I think the only time we actually see Murdoc kill someone was in the dream-episode, 'Serenity', when he shot Billy Colson. Other than that, we have Pete's word from the 'Partners' flashbacks that Murdoc was a cold-blooded killer.

I guess MacGyver threw him off his game... no wonder he was so miffed! happy.gif



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MacNymph
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 03:27 PM                                    
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Murdoc was miffed. Quayle was peeved. happy.gif



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MacGyver
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 06:30 PM                                    
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Well, Murdoc did kill Nicholas Hellman in "Halloween Knights" with a grenade. And he shot Billy Colton in the dream sequence in "Serenity" but that doesn't really count. And of course, Pete has confirmed that Murdoc is a cold-blooded killer. He's certainly tried to kill MacGyver numerous times, along with many of his friends, including Pete, Jack, Penny and Nikki (or at least was prepared to do so). Oh yeah, and he knifed Wintergreen in "Cleo Rocks" just to leave a message for MacGyver. He was certainly ready to kill Amy and her mom in "Strictly Business". And somehow he got access to a forklift in "Partners", which I'm sure he stole- but I wouldn't be suprised if he killed someone at the junkyard to get to it or whatever. And he killed that guy with the dart shooting out of the briefcase in "Obsessed". And of course, he actually had MacGyver trapped with no foreseeable way of getting out of death by the poisoned arrow in "Strictly Business"- though he did let him go as a way of repaying his debt.
So yeah- Murdoc is definitely still very vicious and has done plenty of killing. But of course, MacGyver continues to stymie him! biggrin.gif



 
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Lothithil
Posted: 26 September 2007 - 06:46 PM                                    
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doh.gif Of course! I forgot about them!

Guess Murdoc hadn't completely lost his touch... and definitely not lost his flair for the dramatic!



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trtlsoup
Posted: 28 September 2007 - 12:14 PM                                    
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I've missed SO many GOOD conversations the past few days... sad.gif (watching the fall preview shows...)

I never really thought about the separate organizations. You guys are really on the ball with noticing details. Looks like I'm up for another marathon if I'm to keep up with all of you. biggrin.gif



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MacGyverOnline
Posted: 6 October 2007 - 06:55 PM                                    
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QUOTE (MacGyverGod)
the distance between Deathlock, Silent World and Halloween Knights is just to big to be connected to each other.


what?




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MacGyverGod
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 01:16 AM                                    
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Meaning the whole three men things must be a coincidence, like I said in my previous post.

I just don't think HIT was mentioned before Halloween Knights. That's why I said the distance between Deathlock, Silent World and Halloween Knights is too big. I don't think those three men from Deathlock and Silent World belongs to HIT. Becaue if HIT was that important they could've mentioned it and not wait till Halloween Knights to come up with a name. HIT's an organisation you won't easily forget.



I think the poison that was used was applied to this knife, passed to the mutton when it was cut and then activated by the wine. - MacGyver.
Sometimes you just have to die a little inside to be reborn and rise again as a stronger and wiser version of you.
It's better to be a little sad than to be fake content.

 
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MacGyverOnline
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 01:40 AM                                    
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or it could be that just didn't actually need to refer to HIT by name until the Halloween Knights episode. Preferring to add to the suspense and intrigue of the audience not knowing who these people where who kept sending villains after MacGyver.




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Amy
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 03:11 AM                                    
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QUOTE (Amy @ 26 September 2007 - 06:14 AM)
HIT is mentioned in Partners, isn't it? Maybe this "organization" was a precursor or something?

Are you guys sure Pete doesn't tell MacGyver who Murdoc works for in Partners? I could've sworn he did. hmm.bmp There's a scene were Pete tells Mac about the two photos Murdoc takes and he says something to the effect that Murdoc sends one as confirmation to....his employer? does he actually say HIT? And I thought he also defined what the acronym HIT was to Mac. Someone help! LOL! If so, then that puts a HIT reference in between Deathlock and Silent World. Which would kind of lead me to think that maybe the writer's weren't really trying to tie them together, or didn't have the connection really fleshed out yet and never did.



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Macs Lab Rat
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 06:04 AM                                    
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In Partners Pete says the photos go to the person who pays for the hit with a copy going to the DXS. He tells MacGyver that Murdoc is a top-level world class assassin but doesn't say who he works for.



 
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Lothithil
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 06:05 AM                                    
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From 'Partners':
Pete: "When he makes a hit, he always takes a picture of his victim... dying."
Mac: "Keeping an album, is he?"
Pete: "No... one shot goes to whoever paid for the hit, as proof... and uh, a copy to us--the DXS-- just for fun."
Mac: "And this is who I chose to help?!"
Pete: "That's right."
~

'Hallowe'en Knights' was the first time we heard about HIT specifically-- but I put that down to the fact that Murdoc was trying to enlist MacGyver's help, and our little murderous maniac knew that being honest about who kidnapped her was the only way he was going to get Mac to agree to help rescue his sister.

The fact that there was no specific mention of HIT before that, makes me believe that it probably didn't exist prior to that episode. However, there nothing saying that Murdoc had always belonged to that organization, or that they were his only employers---just like MacGyver didn't always belong to the Phoenix Foundation, and that they were not always the only ones to enlist his help.

Pete and Mac worked for a vague organization for a while, which became defined as the DXS in time, and then suddenly the Phoenix Foundation was born. Why not the same for the Underworld and our Anti-MacGyver?

It makes sense to me that facts about the criminal underbelly of the MacGyver Universe would take more time to reveal itself.

JMHO cool.jpg




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Amy
Posted: 7 October 2007 - 09:55 AM                                    
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OK...yeah! Thanks for setting me straight! smile.gif



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Posted: 8 October 2007 - 07:14 AM                                    
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I believe in obsessed they talk about them finding a body at the bottom of the mind shaft (strictly buiseness) but it was to damaged to identify it completely but the feds where satisfied it was murdoc. Obviously it wasn't so that means he killed someone of his same size and build and threw them down the shaft. Therefore he atleast killed two people that you see or hear about. Ever wonder who the unlucky person was that he choose to play himself? Not to go off topic but did anyone else find it extremly hard not to laugh in strictly buiseness when murdoc posing as macgyver said referring to the phone lines "i could fix it if only I had some duct tape" I think he probably had a hard time not laughing saying those lines.



Now technically I'm driving a stolen car following a kidnapping... and I didn't even get to have my first cup of coffee. (Mac)
Your burning hot MacGyver... And so is Pete! ! (Murdoc)
Does anyone have a knife?? Yes...it has lots of different blades (Macgyver music plays while mac examines the knief) ...I know
Why are you taking your pants off?? You got a better idea? I'm still trying to figure out what yours is!!

 
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Posted: 8 October 2007 - 11:40 AM                                    
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QUOTE (MACGYVERISMYDAD @ 9 October 2007 - 04:49 AM)
Not to go off topic but did anyone else find it extremly hard not to laugh in strictly buiseness when murdoc posing as macgyver said referring to the phone lines "i could fix it if only I had some duct tape"  I think he probably had a hard time not laughing saying those lines.

laugh.gif Yep thats one of those tongue firmly planted in the cheek moments RDA refers too.



QUOTE (MACGYVERISMYDAD @ 9 October 2007 - 04:49 AM)
I believe in obsessed they talk about them finding a body at the bottom of the mind shaft (strictly buiseness) but it was to damaged to identify it completely but the feds where satisfied it was murdoc.  Obviously it wasn't so that means he killed someone of his same size and build and threw them down the shaft.  Therefore he atleast killed two people that you see or hear about.


Good point.



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Liz1976
Posted: 14 June 2008 - 03:39 PM                                    
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I was thinking about the question about Murdoc and whether he actually killed anyone. I know that this has been partially covered--but the challenge of going through and thinking about it intrigued me.

Partners-- he tried to kill Mac and Pete (not to mention Jack Dalton) a few times when they first met and seven years later--question whatever happened to the 2 guys with the bazookas in Partners--I wondered about that the other night while watching it--did Murdoc kill those guys off? Pete said that he had a long career before that so obviously the list was extensive.

Widowmaker-tried to kill Mac and Nikki--who knows who he hurt to get the information--glad he didn't hurt Ellard at the general store- and that Nikki didn't become another target

Cleo Rocks--killed Wintergreen the theater owner, who Murdoc is disguise described as a pig-- and then tried to kill Mac, Pete and Penny and gives a long speech about how he was once a top notch assassin--the best in the business

Serenity-killed Billy Colton in Mac's dream, and almost killed Mac but the SAK saved him!

Halloween Knights- he killed Nicholas Hellman-- what about the other members of the board? What about Sonya? I always wondered. I wouldn't put it past him.

Strictly Business --he came really close- and tried to kill Suzanne too, after kidnapping her

Obsessed he admit that he killed a fisherman after surviving the fall into the mine shaft in Strictly Business, then he killed Strike (played by Don Galloway) with the poisened dart in the breifcase, then the soldier that Delosora ordered to shoot Murdoc- so three--then tried to kill Mac

Let's see how many felony counts is that? biggrin.gif I think that's all that were shown or mentioned--but who knows how many more?



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jknnej
Posted: 15 June 2008 - 04:47 AM                                    
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Mac wasn't a target of Murdoc's until he "accidentally" ran into him while driving Jack's cab-he didn't become a target until Thornton got involved, right?
That wasn't really a satisfactory way for Pete and Mac to meet to me; where did Mac work before that?



 
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Lothithil
Posted: 15 June 2008 - 07:47 AM                                    
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QUOTE (jknnej @ 15 June 2008 - 07:22 AM)
Mac wasn't a target of Murdoc's until he "accidentally" ran into him while driving Jack's cab-he didn't become a target until Thornton got involved, right?
That wasn't really a satisfactory way for Pete and Mac to meet to me; where did Mac work before that?

And where does the camel fit into the picture? happy.gif



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Liz1976
Posted: 15 June 2008 - 09:18 AM                                    
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Mac was blissfully ignorant of Murdoc, the DXS, the Phoenix Foundation until the day he met Pete Thornton while Pete was chasing Murdoc (Partners) According to the 4th season episode the Challenge Mac worked full time at the Challenger's Club for a while--explaining the close relationship with Booker and Cynthia.

When Mac met Pete he was just driving Jack Dalton's taxi--because Jack had skated off the pier looking at a blonde surprise.gif



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MacGyverOnline
Posted: 15 June 2008 - 12:33 PM                                    
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QUOTE (jknnej @ 16 June 2008 - 01:22 AM)
where did Mac work before that?

look at 1970 onwards in the time line



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Posted: 16 June 2008 - 04:17 PM                                    
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QUOTE (jknnej)
That wasn't really a satisfactory way for Pete and Mac to meet to me; where did Mac work before that?

Check out Lothi's story "The Art of Smuggling Camels" in the Library here. It works for me!

And then read the sequel: "Unbreakable Camels".
cool.jpg



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Posted: 12 October 2009 - 07:16 PM                                    
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QUOTE
I don't think Quayle or Crane actually worked for HIT. They're not deadly enough. Quayle likes too play to much and is too much of a 'scum' like Mac said, and Crane is not a murderer but a professional thief.

In Halloween Knights the Joker is suppose to report on their arms smuggling operation, so it would seem that murder wasn't the only thing they were in to.



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Posted: 6 March 2018 - 05:25 PM                                    
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hmm.bmp unsure.gif I'll have to ponder this before I can decide for sure.



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Posted: 6 March 2018 - 07:27 PM                                    
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Note that in "Strictly Business," one of the HIT board members says that "MacGyver has been a detriment to our overseas operations for years."

Now, at this point, we've only knowingly seen MacGyver tangle with HIT once - in "Halloween Knights." The previous Murdoc episodes, if I recall correctly, were all just Murdoc personally seeking revenge.

But we have seen MacGyver tangle with professional hitmen before, so it wouldn't be a stretch if these people or at least some of them were HIT members.

(Of course, it's also possible that they're not and that it's simply something that happened offscreen. One of the things I like about eighties television is that not everything had to be connected, in contrast to today's television with its serialization and its conspiracy mytharcs tying everything together).



 
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