Isabel Lucas
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Roaddawg71
Posted: 30 September 2017 - 05:23 PM                                    
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Wasn't one of the criticisms of season 1 that there were too many characters fighting for screen time? Why on earth would they add someone else? Doesn't make much sense to me. Do they really need a 6th member of the team? Thoughts?




 
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Joe SAKic
Posted: 30 September 2017 - 06:07 PM                                    
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They must feel they need for it - to keep up the ratings. Remember that bull*censored* (and a plethora of different characters to identify with) baffles brains. Gone are the days when a single character could carry 60 minutes ala RDA ..... try it today and everybody will be headed out the door while dick,dicking on their smartie phones. Different times, different tactics ....... so the M(ac)-Team it must be!



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Jediferret
Posted: 30 September 2017 - 07:51 PM                                    
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Isabel Lucas herself wouldn't be a problem if they didn't already have a full cast.

Original MacGyver was independent, and had several episodes where he went on his adventures alone. MacGyver 2.0 seems to be completely dependent on Jack and Bozer. Sadly, this is very out of character for him.



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Barry Rowland
Posted: 1 October 2017 - 01:21 AM                                    
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Definitely not the character I know and love. I think the independent Mac was part of what made him what he was. macsak.gif MacG.gif



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Roaddawg71
Posted: 1 October 2017 - 08:51 AM                                    
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Yeah I have no problem with Isabel Lucas herself, but the need for ANOTHER main character is unnecessary.




 
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Posted: 1 October 2017 - 09:27 AM                                    
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QUOTE (Roaddawg71 @ 1 October 2017 - 03:23 AM)
Wasn't one of the criticisms of season 1 that there were too many characters fighting for screen time? Why on earth would they add someone else?

Well, it's always been one of OUR criticisms.


Producers and cast always made it clear they would love more cast members; especially because of the work load.

Lucas said he filmed in his hometown and had seen his family like 2 times in 9 months because he's working all the time. It was him asking for dropping the voice-overs and having a short hiatus over Christmas because he felt completely burned out.

The work load was also the reason why RDA wanted to drop the voice-overs in Original MacGyver and why he said he wouldn't do "Stargate" unless he got a supporting team (I think the initial idea was to make it Jack and Daniel centered to fit better with the Original movie). It's just too much to do it all alone, especially if you do your own stunts. Both George Eads and Justin Hires have a 3-year-old daughter at home. I can understand that they don't want to carry it all on themselves.

The lead actors in "Hawaii Five-0" have it in their contracts that they don't have to appear in every episode so they get to spend time with their family.

At the moment, I can't think of a TV show being one with a single lead hero, to be honest. They just don't do it that way anymore.



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Jediferret
Posted: 1 October 2017 - 11:12 AM                                    
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That's a good point. As fans, we kinda forget that actors are people too. I do remember RDA talking about how he had "no life" because he was in every episodes and almost every shot. By Season 7, he was obviously tired of the role.

And I can understand that they don't want to bear the entire load themselves. Though, I do think this particular show is still too cluttered. Stargate seemed... a bit more organized, and it didn't feel rushed. Everyone has their own role, and played their own part.

Perhaps, again, I'm being overly too critical. I think this is why RDA believes it's unfair to fans of the original to have to accept the reboot. The reboot is far beyond what we love about the original... almost to the point it's unrecognizable.

Blah... tongue.gif



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Barry Rowland
Posted: 1 October 2017 - 11:20 AM                                    
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I remember RDA saying how he suffered major burnout while playing Mac because he never got a break from filming.



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Posted: 1 October 2017 - 02:36 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Jediferret @ 1 October 2017 - 09:12 PM)
And I can understand that they don't want to bear the entire load themselves. Though, I do think this particular show is still too cluttered. Stargate seemed... a bit more organized, and it didn't feel rushed. Everyone has their own role, and played their own part.

I feel that Stargate had a slower pace, despite being an actiony-SciFi show. First of all, the core team consisted of only 4 people with recurring cast members. They also had lots of "slow" scenes of just exploring foreign planets and meeting new people; trying to communicate and stuff; finding new artifacts and trying to solve puzzles (e.g. a malfunctioning gate).

MacGyver is quite fast-paced and the core team is 6 members now that will appear in EVERY episode - unlike General Hammond or Doctor Frasier, who appeared in lots of episodes, but didn't feel as "present" to me. In the Reboot, everyone is part of the major storyline.

I'm fine with a team if it's a team show - "Stargate SG-1", "Hawaii Five-0", "CSI" and other shows are named after a team.

Shows like "MacGyver" or "Bull" are named after a single character. It doesn't make much sense to my why the main character is so dependent on the others all the time or lets the others do so much of the main work and the thinking.



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Posted: 1 October 2017 - 03:16 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Jediferret @ 2 October 2017 - 07:12 AM)
Though, I do think this particular show is still too cluttered. Stargate seemed... a bit more organized, and it didn't feel rushed. Everyone has their own role, and played their own part.

Perhaps, again, I'm being overly too critical. I think this is why RDA believes it's unfair to fans of the original to have to accept the reboot. The reboot is far beyond what we love about the original... almost to the point it's unrecognizable.

Blah... tongue.gif

Yes cluttered and rushed would be how I describe the show.

It really feels like "quick finish this scene. Now quickly jump to the next scene."

As you said StarGate wasn't like that and nor is H50 or Scorpion or NCIS:LA or any other team show really. They have breathing space and the characters and stories plod along at the required pace but this show feels too crammed.




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Posted: 1 October 2017 - 08:24 PM                                    
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Never started watching season 2 but i probably wont either. biggrin.gif

It has no excitement level in my department. With the original, i couldn't wait for the next episode. But the reboot is meh...



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Posted: 1 October 2017 - 11:50 PM                                    
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I'm just thinking... it must be hell for the producers to introduce such an omnipresent character.

I mean, they're already up filming Episode 2x09. If people hate her like they hated on the original female characters in the original, they're still stuck with her until at least mid-season. It's not like they can cut her out and reshoot everything; especially with ongoing storylines.

Some of the audience might have already abandoned the show until then.

Funny thing is: I've seen people complaining on Twitter about Mac not having enough screentime. But it wasn't Girls cooing over Lucas as usual - it was mostly guys laugh.gif



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Miasma
Posted: 2 October 2017 - 02:36 AM                                    
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QUOTE (MacGyverOnline @ 2 October 2017 - 11:16 AM)

Yes cluttered and rushed would be how I describe the show.

It really feels like "quick finish this scene. Now quickly jump to the next scene."

As you said StarGate wasn't like that and nor is H50 or Scorpion or NCIS:LA or any other team show really. They have breathing space and the characters and stories plod along at the required pace but this show feels too crammed.

Agreed. The original series was a bit too slow-paced for an action-adventure series, so I understand why they felt the need to speed it up, but they went too far. I wish they could have found a middle ground.
I've been rewatching 24 lately, and I think the pacing in thay show is great-- it's fast-paced, certainly, but always easy to follow, and has plenty of emotional "character moments," allowing the audience to get invested in what's happening. It also has tons of tension,unlike MacGyver, because we actually see Jack Bauer trying to figure things out, unlike Mac, who often has a solution before I even fully grasp what the problem is.

As for Isabelle... I liked her well enough in the premiere. If the show wasn't already overstuffed with characters, I think she'd be a good addition.



 
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Posted: 2 October 2017 - 04:24 AM                                    
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QUOTE (Miasma @ 2 October 2017 - 12:36 PM)
As for Isabelle... I liked her well enough in the premiere. If the show wasn't already overstuffed with characters, I think she'd be a good addition.

Exactly.

They granted her enough screentime with Mac and Jack, which I liked. But that also meant Riley and Matty didn't really get that much to do than harping (Matty) and hacking (Riley).

They already had Riley on missions and getting fighting lessons, but with Cage now on the field team, this could mean Riley will now stay behind more often. (Which they should have done right at the beginning with Riley and Bozer instead of taking untrained civilians with them onto missions.)

Judging by the BtS material I've seen, I know of at least 2 scenes that were probably cut for time: One was Matty visiting the Diaz family and talking with them about their son and the ransom. This would probably have been a more quiet, emotional scene to regroup. Another one must have been Bozer, Jack and the bad guy (Ten of Spades?) all packaged; right before they pull Mac out of the sewer. We saw stills of that as well, but the scene was from Mac's perspective in the catacombs, not from the people on top.

These scenes were probably cut because the scenes with Cage were more important for the storyline. If there were fans mainly watching because of Riley, Matty or Bozer, and if this keeps happening regularly, they might be pretty disappointed and turn their backs on the show.



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Posted: 2 October 2017 - 08:12 AM                                    
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I liked Isabel's character as well, but I am afraid her character is going to take away from the other characters and that won't go over well. There was certainly enough material from last season to delve into with the characters that we didn't need to add another one. I understand it may have been because of the workload, but the majority of her scenes appear to be with Mac and Jack. Riley, Matty and Bozer's screen time suffered.






 
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Posted: 2 October 2017 - 08:26 AM                                    
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Spoilers for future eps mentioned below..


I can't help but think there is more to the addition of the new agent. I remember Bozer was supposed to only have limited screen time in the beginning as Mac's roommate and friend, and after fans responded positively, he was give a more screen time. With Thornton's character, people didn't like her character so they wrote her out. I don't believe Peter Lenkov would add a new regular character without slowly introducing her. He knows people are going to speculate about being a love interest or potentially breaking up the bromance etc. She reminds me so much of Nikki I thought they would go in a different direction if they were incorporating a love interest. Plus now that they are filming episode 9, he would have to come up with a way to get rid of her if fans don't like her. Twitter had some mixed responses, but I heard from blogs and facebook, she was not well received.

They did no real press on her until 2 weeks before the season premiere. I just see something here but I am not sure exactly what. There was so much to explore from last season with each character, why add to the mix??

I also think many are afraid the bromance will suffer and this past episode did make Jack look incompetent which I didn't like.

There is speculation based on the scene released by Justin of him lying on the ground looking like Mac did it and the mention on Justin's instagram of an "emotional scene" in what appears to be Jack's apartment that Mac becomes closer to Cage and it breaks up the team, but future scenes show all of them together especially Mac/Jack so I am not sure.

Isabel is a great actress, I just don't like her character here..She should be recurring if anything.

Would love to hear thoughts...



 
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Miasma
Posted: 2 October 2017 - 03:55 PM                                    
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Honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with it if Isabelle took away from Bozer's screen time. He should not be a regular cast member. He should be a recurring guest star who pops up once in a while, kind of like Jack Dalton did in the original series. He really serves no purpose on the show. Jack already provides more than enough comic-relief, and Bozer has no valuable skills to add to the team, so why is he there? I just don't get it. At least Samantha has skills that can help the team, and she's not constantly trying to be funny.

And yeah, I know Mac shouldn't really have a team at all, but since that's obviously how things are going to be in this show, I'd rather have Samantha be part of that team than Bozer.



 
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Posted: 3 October 2017 - 05:32 AM                                    
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QUOTE (Roaddawg71 @ 1 October 2017 - 08:51 AM)
Yeah I have no problem with Isabel Lucas herself, but the need for ANOTHER main character is unnecessary.

I feel the same! I think she is probably a lovely person, and I liked some of her dialogue with the guys. I just think she could have been a RECURRING!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

We have too many main characters. I am a huge bromance Mac/Jack fan, I will admit it. Bozer makes me crazy. I want him in the best friend role, on the plane or at home in the lab, not on missions in the field. It's too confusing and convoluted and unbelievable. At least Cage is an agent.

I understand ensemble casts are important, but I wish they would stop having this identity crisis in the show. Mac is the lead. Jack is his partner. Cage could be a great go to source in the field. Matty runs operations from base. Bozer is the lab/mask designer. Riley is the hacker. How hard is that???

Okay, I know it's not always so simple when you are dealing with a network, but sometimes I feel like even the writers are confused and each have their favorite characters they want to highlight.

AND as someone mentioned earlier-JACK is a highly skilled agent and Delta operator. He is not stupid nor does he need Cage to takeover a mission-which at times I felt she did.



 
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Posted: 3 October 2017 - 05:35 AM                                    
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QUOTE (Miasma @ 2 October 2017 - 03:55 PM)

And yeah, I know Mac shouldn't really have a team at all, but since that's obviously how things are going to be in this show, I'd rather have Samantha be part of that team than Bozer.

Cage over Bozer any day!!!




 
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Posted: 6 October 2017 - 03:03 PM                                    
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QUOTE (RidleyJ @ 3 October 2017 - 03:32 PM)
Okay, I know it's not always so simple when you are dealing with a network, but sometimes I feel like even the writers are confused and each have their favorite characters they want to highlight.

I think that's the result when you try to appease all the networks and producers wishes while implementing your own.

The Reboot feels like a constant compromise. MacGyver was already a well-known brand, so there are certain points you have to meet (e.g. that he doesn't use guns).

Then there were the markers by CBS (e.g. bromance, team, lots of action and cool gadgets), the notes by the Producers (lots of MacGyverisms and nods to the Original), the wishes by Lenkov (more bromance, more Bozer - he was the one who made him a regular).

And then there are the writers. The writer's team is fairly young and there are lots of women - which I like. They write strong female characters. On the other hand, maybe that's why everyone tries to be too cool and hip and young all the time. And while strong female character are needed today with all the white male lead shows, it doesn't change the fact that the main lead of this show still is a white guy and should get his fair share of screentime. Also, it's a blessing and a curse that George Eads has so much charisma and acting experience.

Jack Dalton is an interesting character to write for (because of Eads). The 2nd episode was very Jack-centered - which was too early. Rewatching the episodes in German, I still feel I know the team better then the main hero. And that might continue because it's a team show, so every episode is going to center around a different character - we already had Jack, Riley and Matty. I don't remember, but either Eads or Lenkov said in a recent interview that Bozer will get his own storyarc that spans over 3!!!! episodes. And I'm pretty sure Isabel's character Cage will get one as well.



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Posted: 10 October 2017 - 12:31 PM                                    
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QUOTE (MacGirl0629 @ 2 October 2017 - 08:26 AM)
With Thornton's character, people didn't like her character so they wrote her out.

Is that really why they wrote her off? I still prefer her. Webber just annoys me.




 
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Posted: 10 October 2017 - 01:25 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Roaddawg71 @ 10 October 2017 - 10:31 PM)
Is that really why they wrote her off? I still prefer her. Webber just annoys me.

I'm not sure. It may have played a part, but I don't think that's the only reason.

They had scenes for bulding up her character in the beginning (e.g. Episode 4 when she had to tell the agent's family that their daughter that died); but they never really knew what to do with it.

Sandrine Holt got the lead role in another show; maybe she didn't want to renew her contract? (They had initially ordered only 13 episodes, not a full season.)



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Roaddawg71
Posted: 10 October 2017 - 02:44 PM                                    
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QUOTE (DashboardOnFire @ 10 October 2017 - 01:25 PM)
Sandrine Holt got the lead role in another show; maybe she didn't want to renew her contract? (They had initially ordered only 13 episodes, not a full season.)

I always thought that was the reason why.

Also, anyone know how long it takes to film each episode?




 
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Posted: 10 October 2017 - 03:11 PM                                    
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QUOTE (Roaddawg71 @ 11 October 2017 - 12:44 AM)
Also, anyone know how long it takes to film each episode?

I think Justin Hires said once in one of his Instagram videos it takes 8 days to film.

Then there's ADR and other prost-production stuff.



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Posted: 5 November 2017 - 08:49 AM                                    
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While I liked last night's episode, I feel that Cage has the same point that Matty had in Season 1: Doubting MacGyver, so he can prove himself that his MacGyverisms work.

I thought it was annoying last season, and I feel it's annoying now. I'm okay that not everybody follows him blindly, but it's getting boring when she doubts everything and everyone after she had decided herself to join the team.



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Posted: 2 January 2018 - 03:18 AM                                    
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So, any theories what's going to happen with Cage this Friday?

My guess is she survives, but continues to stay "unavailable". Putting her in a coma until the Season Finale seems a bit too soapy for me, so my guess is she's going back home to her sister she hasn't seen in a while for recuperation time or she goes into hiding.

They can bring her back for the Season 2 Finale since she somehow seems to be an important part of Murdoc's storyline. They way they keep bringing him back, he's probably part of the Season Finale. Also, they can use her for a Season Finale Plot Twist regarding Mac's father (because that has to happen soon before people lose interest in that storyline).

Nikki has never been back although she was deemed such an integral part to catch the Organization (which also hasn't been mentioned since the Season 1 Finale). Yes, the actress has a main role in another TV show and therefore isn't available, but I think if she was, they might have brought her back as a recurring in Season 2 already (because let's be honest, what network would miss the opportunity to bring an ex into a team? There's so much potential for conflict and drama).

I think killing Cage off would be a too bold move after removing Thornton and not using Nikki. It would be stupid to shelve another female character after making such an effort to introduce her to the audience and make her a part of the team.




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Posted: 2 January 2018 - 04:37 AM                                    
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I keep thinking about the character of Lori that was introduced in Hawaii 5-0 season 2. She was received about as well due to poor planning on the writers part as Cage has been. By mid season she decided to 'return home' because she had developed feelinngs for steve of something along those lines so I totally could see your theory of Cage going back to her sister as well, or into hiding. I would love for them to play it like Murdoc tells Mac he was doing him a huge favor and actually protecting him-playing on that part of her being something she isn't- then Cage being gone when they return to the hospital- but I am not seeing that happening. I so wish Cage wasn't tied to the Mac and Jack story we have been waiting for but I also wished she hadn't been linked with Murdoc-who is supposed to be Mac's nemesis but who has now shot Cage twice!!! doh.gif Again, in my opinion the writers have done her no favors but like you I don't want to have to deal with yet another regular being introduced so I would rather at this point stick with the devil we know.



 
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Posted: 2 January 2018 - 07:13 AM                                    
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I liked Lori and wondered where she went (haven't seen all episodes of Season 2 and 3 yet). Probably to meet up with Lucifer laugh.gif .

I don't mind getting new main team members every now and then; but I always think it's sad when they disappear after half a Season or a Season because in the end, there's so much screen time that was dedicated to another actor that sometimes didn't really leave a lasting impression (or didn't get the chance to); so she/he merely left a bit of a chaos behind and didn't do much for the character development of the "core team".

As you all know by now, I'm not fond of Team Phoenix being so big already but I think adding Cage would have worked if
1) there hadn't been already a big team change in Season 1 and
2) if she had been introduced better.


1) It's not so unusual for a main character or even a boss to turn out as the "big bad", but for MacGyver it's a bit special and different since the character of Thornton was the only ever actor to have a permanent Opening Title Credit. Depending on the episode, he wasn't just MacGyver's boss, but sometimes also best friend, father figure or partner in crime. Sandrine's version of Thornton turning out as a mole did turn some viewers off because they kept waiting for her to come back and/or turning out to be a good guy after all (especially since in the Original, Thornton was framed buy a guy called Webber). It's still a sore point for some of the viewers (me included).

In general, an exchange of the Phoenix Boss wouldn't have been so noticeable if the character was more like Thornton. Meredith Eaton might be of small stature, but Webber is such a "louder" presence than Thornton and she's also part of the family bonding scenes - it was more than a little shake-up because she takes up much more room.


2) Bringing in a new character that would be part of the field team was not such a bad idea, but the fact that Isabel never got a portrait on the main show page makes me think they never really planned on her staying on as a regular. Heck, they changed her name last minute (in BtS pictures, her character portrait in the studio lot for the dressing people was still listed as "Olivia" by the end of July).

Her character didn't enter with a "big bang" like Webber, but she was suddenly just there - part of the main team without much fanfare or introduction; no press release, featurette or interview (like they had done with Meredith). Introduced like she was a recurring in 2x01, but acting like a regular which confused viewers a lot (because many kept asking for several episodes if she was a regular or not). If she was intended as a regular, she deserved to get as much room as Matty for character development and the audience to warm up with her - so technically half a season.

Adding a Bozer story-arc, adding Elwood and Leanna so early was just too much. Cage kinda got forgotten in the end. You can argue it didn't matter if she was going to get written out anyway, but it made people even more confused.


I get that the writers are excited to play with all these new characters and storyplots, but sometimes it feels like they forgot Mac and Jack along the way... It's a bit weird that we get to know of and deal with Riley's parents, Murdoc, Bozer's love interest or Matty's personal life drama so much before we even get to meet Jack's sister or Mac's father...


Uhm. Now I talked so much I might have lost my own plotline *LMAO*



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RidleyJ
Posted: 2 January 2018 - 05:00 PM                                    
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I totally agree with your points about the confusion, which is honestly how I still feel about her character - ambivalent and uncertain. There is no investment and I find myself being annoyed because it seems as if the writers think we should like her, I also think we know way too much about Riley and her family-far more than we know about Mac-sigh. AND her mom is coming back-Diane is my least favorite returning character. I would have much rather have seen Mama Colton or better yet Frankie!



 
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Posted: 2 January 2018 - 05:39 PM                                    
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QUOTE (RidleyJ @ 2 January 2018 - 07:00 PM)
I totally agree with your points about the confusion, which is honestly how I still feel about her character - ambivalent and uncertain. There is no investment and I find myself being annoyed because it seems as if the writers think we should like her, I also think we know way too much about Riley and her family-far more than we know about Mac-sigh. AND her mom is coming back-Diane is my least favorite returning character. I would have much rather have seen Mama Colton or better yet Frankie!

Wait, who was Frankie? I can't remember. laugh.gif

As for what will happen to Cage this Friday, I agree that she probably survives. We'll see soon, but I've seen some crew members wondering when Cage will return. I doubt they'd wonder that if she died. hmm.bmp



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