I have to admit, I finally caved into the hype and I have been watching a few episodes of 24. The show is exciting and fast-paced, almost like a small action or thriller movie. However, I don't think I'll ever enjoy it as much as MacGyver.

I was discussing this subject the other night with some friends, and we all agreed. The main reason it's difficult for me to get into this show as much as MacGyver has to do with the main character, Jack Bauer. I know he has to make some tough decisions to save the world, but he's just not a redeeming character at all. I find it hard to watch a program and really get involved with it if I don't like the main character. He's always brutal, has no charm (we called him "low on the charm scale" ), and he's always SO serious! They never (or rarely) show a more human--or humane--side to him at all.

At least with MacGyver, we get some humor along with the seriousness of the topics covered on the show. We see a relaxed, charming person with vulnerabilities and foibles that show that he's not always a "tough guy"-- he's a human being. To me, he's a much more realistic character.

I don't mean to trash the show 24 if others of you out there love it. As I already stated, it has its qualities, too. I just think that with MacGyver, you get more warmth. RDA's other character, Jack O'Neill, has more of an edge to him, but still the humor and dare I say the more "sensitive" side appears on occasion. Those qualities combined are what I look for in my television heroes, not just brutes willing to do anything to get what they want.

What do you guys think?

Yep, even the Terminator showed a kind of human side and had some humor.

I think thats one of the things which made Arnold the big hit that he was.. as much as he was tough.. he was also human (and funny)... remember the terrible one liners he used in Commando.

I've never really watched 24 so can't comment on Jack.. I tried to once.. but just couldn't get interested in it at all.

When the first season of 24 started, I watched it since I had heard so much about it and I liked it. It definitely was something new and fresh, with the split screen and all.

Then the second season started and I really was hooked, even bought two books about it. And then in the middle of the third season I suddenly lost interest. Suddenly the things I liked about it before started to irk me. I thought it was too fast, too confusing, didn't like all the sudden turns in the story, and the dubbed voice of Kiefer Sutherland started to irk me, too (don't know his real voice).

My brother still watches it with much interest, they have completed the fourth season here now.

But even when I still liked to watch it I never thought that it would be a show that I would watch more than once. My brother bought the DVDs so I could have but I didn't want to.

But "MacGyver" you can watch over and over again, even if you know the story already. You still will find something new, some little things he does, some certain facial expression.

You're right, with humor it's just a lot more fun.

This message can contain spoilers for 24.

This is going to become an interesting conversation.

Yes you do. The fifth season was the best one till now and I can't wait till the sixth.

If you were in Jack Bauer's shoes, I'll think you understand. How would you be if your wife and unborn child is killed by the woman you shared the sheets with, that same woman betrays you and your daughter wants nothing to do with you?
Jack Bauer is someone who's looking for redemption. There's actually a touch of The Fugitive there.
If it comes the questioning Jack's indeed brutal, he hasn't got all day you know. Time is of very essence. But Jack has got a human(e) side. Why else did he talked so much with his daughter over the phone? 'Hi, honey!' 'Hey, baby.'

Fighting against terrorism is not be laughed with. Jack isn't MacGyver you know. He's tough, troubled, upset... But he's also vulnerable. He's got a few things in common with MacGyver on that. Jack can't commit to someone either.

But which season have you been watching? In the third season a new character comes along and she brings somewhat humor to the show. Hard sarcasm but... actually I was annoyed by her, I only began to accept her since the fifth season.

There's no warmth to get with 24. They're showing what a hard world it is out there. They're brutal because they don't have all day. If they capture someone and they get the news that something will happen at let's say 12 o' clock and you've captured him at 11:30, it's a 15 minute drive to CTU. You're at CTU at 11:45. That gives you about 15 minutes for questioning. I don't think that's enough for a decent questioning to find out when and where. Than I'm not surprised they torture their captives.
If I was a field operative for CTU, I think I would do the same thing.

Read the above.
Well, watch for the suspense and plot and not for the characters if you don't like Jack Bauer or the others. Don't expect to see softness or humane things. They're here and there but never too much.
24 was meant to get peoples hooked again to series and than Lost and Prison Break came.

That's true.

Commando's on my list.

Try again. Sometimes second times viewing can be convincing. There are episodes in MacGyver, I had to watch over again before I started to like it.

Which one? I've got Operation Hellgate. Interesting angle is that was all set before 9/11 and only four characters were in them.

You know the third season was to my opinion the weakest upon till now. It wasn't bad but not the best around. The seasons in order of my liking 5, 4, 2, 1, 3.
Maybe you should try to watch the DVD's in English if the dubbing bothers you. Kiefer Sutherlands voice is always raw and raspy. If you want a movie where his voice is central try Phonebooth. That's what I read in a magazine. During some scenes his voice is smooth and soft but when he's angry, his voice is always raw. And he always speaks raw in 24.

Tell him to get on with the fifth right away.

Just give it another chance. Watch them in English. I've seen nearly all the episodes at least twice. I intend to buy the dvd's as well but the first season is still so expensive. Just try it.

24 too. Except with 24 you just can't pick an episode, you got the watch the whole season.

Hardness and darkness, can be fun too you know. It doesn't always have to be something humoreous.

In fact I'm trying to think of a fanfic; A MacGyver/24 crossover. Because I think it would be interesting to compare the Phoenix Foundation methods with the CTU methods. Think that's going to be a big job, if I want it as good as 24. Probably won't be able to do it, with all those twists and turns.

I watched 24 the first season and enjoyed it. Enjoyed it enough to make a point of never missing an episode, even though they were doing encore repeats.

They lost me about half way through the second season. It was the daugther. I remember thinking how much crap can happen to one teenage girl?? I'm thinking when they approached her to do the second season, she said, "sure, but I want more screen time". And to make things worse, I thought she was a really bad actress.

Ah yes, that. Well in the third season she's involved in the main plot and that sure solved a lot things. It's just the side-story, bugged a few people here too.

No she' not, she's hot!!!

Which one? I've got Operation Hellgate. Interesting angle is that was all set before 9/11 and only four characters were in them.

No, it were the episode guides of the first and second season.

"24: The House Special Subcommitee's Findings at CTU" - a very good and detailed made book, looks like a lot of classified files of the CTU, with lots of informations (about the first season).

"24 - Season 2. The Unofficial Guide" by Mark Wright approaches it more in a funny way, you start to see the series in a not so serious way actually. One category for every episode is called "Kim in danger" and what she did wrong this time (again ), or they measure the pulse beat because of the suspense in every episode, and they list all the question you still have at the end of every episode. Lot's of trivia also.

Then the dubbing is very matching, I'd say! And I now remember hearing Kiefer himself in 24 at the beginning of the "Golden Globes" and it sounded just the same.

And that was exactly what was going onto my nerves after some time. I thought: Why can't he speak "normal"? My throat would hurt speaking all the time like this

Tell him to get on with the fifth right away.

He would have to wait till they air it of course. He said, fourth was best so far. Maybe he's right

Problem is, they show it three episodes in a row per week. Since I watch many other shows as well I just don't have the time for this. One episode per week would be sufficient enough for me.

And if you miss one, you don't have any clue what's going on the next time

That's just the way he speaks just like how Stallone mumbles, Sutherlands raws. I'm sure drinking and smoking is also the cause of that. Don't know if he's a smoker or not.

Three? We only get two.

I guess I'm just saying that in intense situations, there's still an opportunity for humor--and I'm not talking about fluffy humor, either. It's been shown that in combat situations, some generals and other soldiers will have an offbeat, somewhat dark or gruff sense of humor to cope with the horrific situations they must face. Look at the show E.R. Even though they're dealing with life and death situations, they still sometimes manage to say something that is sarcastic--perhaps not strictly light and funny, but somewhat humorous in its own right, appropriate for the stress they're under. Humor, no matter what form it takes, is a psychological coping mechanism.

I think the writers of 24 could get away with Jack Bauer having a dark sense of humor once in awhile, that's all. It would fit in fine with the intensity of the show, plus it would add a little something extra to his always morose character. He doesn't have to be MacGyver (even though I still prefer Mac).

I don't think so.

Two episodes a week? We only get one- as far as I know... We only watch one episode a week and if there were more I am certain my mom would make sure we watched them...

Yes, I have to agree I absolutely LOVE 24 and it is watched every week on Monday night at my house but I miss the humor and there is never a moments break from the death and depsair. MacGyver always has a humorous side and far more light-hearted than 24 will ever be. But, in actuality- 24 is more realistic and that is another reason I like it. But I do and will always love MacGyver more than 24.

I think the success of 24 has to do with that it is realistic and except for the exception of Jack Bauer, anyone can die. And I think that is why 24 (besides it's thorough realisticness) has been such a popular show. It is unpredictable.

Firn

P.S. I have to agree with MacGyverGod. I don't think that people would enjoy the show quite as much if Jack had even a dark sense of humor- then he might be labled more of cruel or unfeeling. Besides (with the exception of this season) Chloe is in ways the comic relief at times- even though very briefly and easily missed she offers some humor by her facial expressions and her problems with other people. I think if there was too much humor in 24 though, it would not do as well.

She has a face that's always on thunder clouds.
You say: "with exception of this season". Talking of the fifth or sixth season? I never really liked her until the fifth season. She really annoyed me in the third and fourth season. I think I got watch those over again.

What about a House-like sarcasm? Would that work? I don't know--I guess I just like a little humor in my dramas--it takes the edge off a little. I agree that Chloe is pretty cool, though. Anyway, I'm done. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned and have a hard time fully appreciating modern dramas. I'm firmly set in my ways as the crotchety old lady that I am (at 27).

To be honest; never watched 24, not a single episode.

My youngest brother is mad about the show. Never took the time to sit down and watch it...

That doctor dude? That humor in 24? No. 24 is serious business. If they add humor to it, it's the shows death.

Don't you like those sharp confrontial edges?

Girl, you don't know what your missing.

Back then when I started to watch it that realism definitely was what I liked, too. After all those phantasy and mystery series. But since they have to come back every season with an even bigger threat than before (and since we can see that much stuff happen every day in the news) it somehow became too realistic for me, if that makes any sense.

I'm just that way. I use to have times where I like to watch military movies, and then I do have times where I don't and want to see something fluffy like "Desperate Housewives". Didn't watch war films for a while and then I started with "Stargate" and my co-worker just calls it a military show but despite that I like it and therefore also started to watch the odd military movie now and then again.

Still don't have seen "Private James Ryan", for example, because at that time I just couldn't bear it.

And since we're already talking about "Stargate" (I am, anyway ) - there will come a lot of new fans now that never watched "24" before and now want to see Michael Shanks in it - that will get interesting!

I have to agree with those who aren't crazy about 24. I do like Kiefer Sutherland though... he has that same intensity that RDA does. He's a heck of an actor. And I like Jack OK... he's tough as nails, but he is imaginative sometimes, and he does care about his team members. He just doesn't have too many chances to show it.

I guess 24 just wears me out. After watching an eppy of it, I sort of feel like I've been through an emotional wringer. I can watch a few eppys, then I have to stop. Also, the fact that they NEVER catch the bad guys kind of wears on me after awhile. (Yes, occasionally they snag a small-time player, but the big ones always get away.) It's just very pessimistic. Plus, I think it's just a little TOO realistic for me, what with 9/11 and all (especially considering that I was working security at a nuclear power plant during that time!)... and sometimes, they try to take the realism so far that it's no longer really believable, if that makes sense. I also object to the characters' use of, shall we say, "unconventional interrogation techniques." That also is a little too much, especially after Abu Ghraib.

All things considered, I'll take Mac any day!

Usually I tape 24 for a friend of mine and when he comes by we watch usually several episodes.One time we even watched for nine hours. "Those unconventional interrogations techniques" are great. I like to learn more about tortures techniques. It was a bit low what the fifth season is concerned but I hardly noticed because of the intense suspense.

UGH!! You've got to be kidding me. You think torture is cool?? You should read about some of the things the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib were doing to totally innocient people. Bet you wouldn't think it was so cool then.

You would like to learn about torture???

Spend a couple of months in a Muslim or African prison - and you know all there is to learn.

Horrible to think that Amercans (socalled civilized people) can go that low, thinking Guantanamo here - and Abu Ghraib.

Isolation is torture too, you know.

Psykological torture... I think this is the worst kind, because it leaves no visual scars. Try living with that for 16 years...

And you can find this in your own neighbourhood. Check the statistics, how many youngsters, boys and girls, have thought about or even attempted suicide? That is, in too many cases (but not all), a symptom of psykological torture.

You really don't know what you are talking about... Rejoyce and be happy about that.

Or, for that matter, spend some time reading about what right-wing dictatorships in Latin America (Argentina, Chile, El Salvador) did to dissenters and democracy advocates in the '70's and '80's. And I'm ashamed to say that the U.S. supported those governments during that time, under the guise of "fighting communism." Yeah, right.

MacGyver is an ideal. Jack Bauer is the reality. Every country employs people like him and people ten times worse, whether they admit to it or not, in the name of the so called "common good". It makes for good television, but pray to God you'd never ever have the misfortune of meeting someone like him.

I've tried to watch 24 on several different occasions. I can't do it. It's WAY too realistic and violent for me. If MacGyver is the ideal, then he is for me. I'll let myself live in my own little "MacGyver" fantasy world and, yes, pray that I never do meet someone like Jack Bauer. Oh how I wish that SOMETHING like MacGyver would come on television again. Survivorman anyone?

Bauer is not such a bad guy if you're on his side and even then. He's someone you don't want to mess with. I've seen him handling bad guys that is far beyond MacGyver's ways. They just don't got time to interrogate their captives with patience, everything has to happen within a small amount of time. I don't think I can handle Jack Bauer if we're standing against each other, but in alliance... who knows.
24 is indeed violent and realistic but don't forget it's still all fiction. They just deal with fictional world terrorism. Still brainstorming on MacGyver/24 crossover.

Neither was Saddom Husain.. if you where on his side.

Maybe thats why I don't like it. If I want realistic violence, I'll watch the news.
When I watch TV I want to be entertained and see something enjoyable.

I don't find realistic violence all that enjoyable.

My words!

And I wait for the day where we will only see nice news at TV without any violence.

You know, last winter one day the headline at the paper was "Policemen rescued snowman" and I thought it must have been an uneventful day if that was the most exciting news they could come up with.

And I defninitely liked it! We should have much more news about nice things, actually.

I agree, Rock.

Want realism? Watch the news

Movies and series are meant to entertain, being enjoyable. There is nothing enjoyable about 24. I watched most of the first two seasons, then I quit.
Well, not intirely, it happens occasionally I zapp to an episode, then I usually watch it to the end - if nothing better is found

Jack Bauer does all the bad things - and yet is supposedly the good guy. He lies, steals, kills, uses drugs, is extremely violent, doesn't hold back on torture (not even if it's a *friend*) - all this to get hold on the bad guy. No integrity

I'll choose MacGyver anytime. MacGyver has integrity. He would never give up his ideals for any reason. Through out the seven years, as far as I remember, he only once had a gun in the hand and was about to shoot. But it didn't feal right, and Pete talked him out of his amnesia



And - the "ideal" is better for entertainment than real life.

Jack Bauer / Keiffer Sutherland is going to be on The Simpsons next Sunday.

News without any violence isn't (much) news. But indeed it doesn't always have to be that. On the Belgian news it's always about traffic accidents, every day. But also other stuff: unnecessary violence. About two weeks ago a man was kicked into a coma by three kids, just for plain fun. Not sure if he died now, I heard something about him dying. There was really no reason, they just tripped him and started kicking. First they weren't sure if they would broadcast the footage because it was too hard. They showed it and stopped about halfway through. They said they broadcasted it because senseless violence is increasing in Belgium. Last year at least two kids got killed over an mp3 player and about three months ago as I already told a mother killed her children and tried to take her own life.

Yes there is. But actually it's not the violence, it's the suspense that makes it enjoyable.

Never caught him on a lie. Can't remember it though. Bluffing, maybe but not lying. He indeed does everything no matter what it takes. But he's not on drugs... anymore. He started using drugs while he was undercover with drugs dealers, not to blow his cover.

Just imagine what it would give if MacGyver had to shoot Pete without having amnesia. I just recall something from 24 where in Jack had to shoot his superior.
Pete on his knees with MacGyver holding a gun on him. Actually that would be so wrong.

Yep for the 400th episode. I want to see that one, I wonder how they would make a parody on it with the split screens and probably Homer having to help Jack Bauer.

Bluffing is also lying Telling a lie is to tell something that is not true. How big a lie takes it to make it a lie? Even irony is a sort of lie

That kind of says it all, doesn't it?

This is yet another example of lies that must be told to acieve the goal

Then it wouldn't be MacGyver that's more Jack O'Neill... He would shoot his superior, if needs be

Yep for the 400th episode. I want to see that one, I wonder how they would make a parody on it with the split screens and probably Homer having to help Jack Bauer.

Oh, yeah. This sounds like an episode I want to see. Could turn out fun