Something just occurred to me while thinking about the target MacGyver episode.

It seems to be a re-occurring theme throughout the show, that a lot of MacGyver's way of doing things and thinking seems to have come from Harry's teachings to MacGyver when he was a kid.

Now, in the scene from (I think) Phoenix Under siege, we see a flashback where MacGyver's father and grandmother are going to the store, and then later the police come to inform of their death. Obviously there where all together that night, but we see (and hear) Harry ask the grandmother to pick up some more razer blades for him... You wouldn't normally ask that if you where visiting at someones house... so this leads to the question... did MacGyver's grand parents live with him and his parents (like a kind of Waltons arraignment)?

In Target MacGyver, we hear Mac say that he just woke up one morning and Harry was gone... does this mean harry continued to live with them after the car crash.. or did he move in with them?

I'm kind of leaning towards the idea that they all lived together before the crash.. What do the rest of you think?

I have always assumed that. Why wouldn't it? The MacGyvers are a fairly small family. It was just Harry, Celia, James, Ellen and MacGyver. There was never any reference to other relatives. We don't know James's parents or brothers or sisters and same thing goes for Ellen. So I doubt MacGyver has had any uncles or aunts let alone nephews or nieces.

This could also lead to the possibility that Harry wasn't visiting MacGyver but MacGyver visiting Harry with James and Ellen. But indeed than we have the Target MacGyver issue.

Still it doesn't mean anything. Maybe Harry went to live with his daughter and grandson after Celia and James had died and than suddenly left one day.

Now, in Blood Brothers we see the house where Mac grew up as a kid in 1963 a year after the accident. In Phoenix under Siege Harry says, he was ploughing and couldn't find the way back to the barn after working on that piece of land for twenty years. So Phoenix under siege was set in December 1986 (now we got the old timeline mix up again, but I'll just continue in Mac's universe) So this means Harry's got a farm, maybe not a big one, but he sure is someone from the countryside. So he worked from 1966 till at least 1986 on land.

MacGyver's house sure didn't look like a farm or he probably had one hell of a big backyard.

Harry left in 1969 and became a construction worker in Alaska, if I recall well. So he couldn't have worked on that land for twenty years anyway. Because God knows how long he was gone and returned when Mac went to live in LA.

So maybe Harry didn't live with him but Mac and Ellen lived with Harry and maybe not for long. I delibrately say both Mac and Ellen. Mac doesn't seem like someone to leave his mom behind.

It's also never confirmed how long they lived in the house of Blood Brothers. So maybe somewhere between 1963 and 1969 they could've moved to Harry's place. Ellen could've lived there until her death in 1971. MacGyver is then on assignment in Afghanistan and who knows maybe Harry returned than after he found out one way or another that Ellen had died. But than of course the chances are bigger that Mac and Harry would've bumped into each other which wasn't the case. So the only reason I can think of is Harry discovered it later than MacGyver and returned when MacGyver was with Kate Malloy or attending Western Tech University.

In short, did they live together? Like I said, I assumed it and maybe they did for a while but I wouldn't be too surprised they spended a lot of time together, weekends and holidays. If they didn't they probably didn't live to far away from each other in Minnesota so they could come by whenever they could.

If it was just Harry, Celia, James, Ellen and MacGyver. Those five against the big bad world. With James and Celia dying, the family fell apart. Ellen depressed about her husband's and mother's death, Harry just leaving without notices and MacGyver left behind running with the question if he could've done something to save his father and grandmother.

What can I say after that?

Good memory...

The traditonial family (at least where I grew up) the grandparents lived with or were very close to other members of the family, so yeah... it's feasible that Mac lived with, at least for a time, with his grandparents.

I dunno... I tend to believe that Ellen and James and little Mac were visiting Harry and Celia. If Celia had said that she needed to go to the store, I can imagine that James would have volenteered to drive her.

I can see the MacGyvers living in the house in Mission City and driving out to visit the grandparent frequently, and the MacGyvers lending a hand during harvest, or out on weekends so that their son can make magnets to pick up shoeing nails in the barn, or ride his bicycle off of barn roofs...

I would imagine that after the accident Harry might have left his farm to escape the memories of his late wife, but staying with Ellen reminded him too much of her and so he hit on the road, sending back money to ease his conscious about abandoning his daughter and grandson.

My question is: why didn't we see Ellen in those flashbacks? Was she not there that fateful evening?

I always thought that Mac and his parents, or just Mac and his dad, were visiting with Harry and Celia at the time of James and Celia's accident. The cop who comes to the door doesn't ask for Ellen, but asks Harry if he's the husband of Celia. I think after that, maybe even after Blood Brothers, Mac and his mother moved in with Harry

I don't think you can draw conclusions from any information given in the episodes. The writers buggered up the continuity of the character so badly!

As for the top statement. I remember a few things from when I was ten and younger. Trips maybe a holiday. But I certainly don't remember conversations I had with people... or exact quotes of my grandfather.

Interesting question. I would say that at the very least, Mac and his parents lived close to his grandparents (not out of the question in a small town); maybe down the block or even across the street.

Like Loth, I guess I assumed that in the flashbacks in Target MacGyver, Mac and his parents were visiting Harry and Celia for the evening. It wouldn't have been unusual for Celia to ask James to take her to the store; a lot of older people have a hard time driving, especially in bad weather.

Then after the crash, maybe Ellen and Mac did indeed move in with Harry, but it didn't last long, since Harry left not long after. I would assume that after that, Ellen probably found a small house or apartment for the two of them.

I do find a bit odd that Ellen doesn't appear in that eppy, but maybe she decided to stay home because of the storm, and was unable to make it to the farm until the next day when the weather cleared.

Only to discover that her husband died the night before.

It's too bad that TPTB didnt delve into MacGyver's family in more detail. It seemed like an important part of his character.

And I tend to remember things that my grandmother taught me, even more than my mom. Weird, huh?

Well, I think the impression from the first season was that MacGyver didn't have any family (and indeed- Harry was his only living relative, as far as he knew at the time...) In order to keep the feel of MacGyver as something of a mystery man (hence only the last name "MacGyver"- adding to the mystery), we also only know a few details about his family.
Slowly throughout the series, different things can be pieced together. And that's also part of developing MacGyver's character throughout the show.

That's probably true, MacGyver. I do tend to think they were visiting that day, and that after the accident Harry moved in with them or vice versa. I don't think there's any real evidence that they did move it together, but when Mac talks about Harry leaving, that's the impression I get.

On a side note, my grandparents didn't live with us...they were literally over the river and through the woods...in the next town. We went to Gramma's almost every weekend, every holiday and special occasion and sometimes they'd come over during the week and we'd all sit on the front porch (Ah, those were the days!). That said, I think my Pap taught me more than my parents put together. Not that he was always spouting catchy maxims like Harry seemed capable of, but he taught me an awful lot and I have vivid memories of him as early as 4 years old maybe. He's always been my biggest hero.

Anyway, I don't think it's unrealistic that Mac has such clear memories of Harry and things Harry said, whether they lived in one house or not.

actually it probably makes more sense that Harry moved in with them, because I think Harry would have been less likely to just up and leave from his own home.

But then we have the comment in Phoenix Under Siege where he says he's been working that same bit of land for the last 30? 50? can't remember how long he says.. but was a long time anyway... so that comment kinda throws a spanner in the cogs of the first story.

20 years. Or maybe that temporary move-in was his way of saying goodbye. We don't know how long he stayed he there. He could've said: Can I move-in? And maybe three weeks later he splits.

Holy cow!!

According to our timeline Harry left 7 years after the accident.

Which blows Harry's comment about working the same land for 20 years right out of the water because he said that in 1987.. minus 20 years is 1967.. two years before he walked out in 1969.... oops.

AARGH!! Another example of how the writers (literally) couldn't keep their story straight...