Nope, real bullets. Myhusband taught me how to shoot as part of responsible gun ownership. We spend a lot of time in the Utah backcountry. This area is very remote and if something happens, you need to be self reliant.

Guns are good for one other thing that we haven't mentioned. They make a LOT of noise. Shooting into the air to send a signal is still a means of communication in remote areas. I think its three shots fired in rapid succession. If someone else is in the area and hears the shots, they understand it is a call for help.

I have never had to use the gun while we are in the backcountry, and it is my sincerest desire to never have to use it. I see it as a tool, to be used as a 'last resort'. I've come across reattlesnakes and strange rangers in equal proportion in the backcountry, and I have never felt the need to use the gun. In most cases, its easiest to just walk away.

I don't know if I could face another person with a gun in my hand and pull the trigger. I pray that I will never have to find out.

You didn't answer the question. Saying "bible" doesn't mean anything to me. Why do you need to refer to the bible or quote scripture to explain what I would think would probably be a simple one sentence explaination? You have a gun and their aren't and Russians or Chinese sneaking outside your back door. What point are you trying to argue?

And, no, you're not the only conservative on the boards. I vote republican and would probably leave the country if Hillary Clinton was elected president.

I'm not gonna argue politics, Rocky's right, this isn't the appropriate place. But regardless of your political affiliation and viewpoint, you have to admit one thing.

This election has much broader implications than just choosing the next US President.

I know, and I don't really want to argue politics either, if that's even what I'm doing. It's hard to stay within those confinds and my apologises to Rocky, but when someone just throws out a general broad FOUL "Nobody here is like me" I feel the need to say that's not really the basis for an arguement, especially when it's not necessarily true.

This is true and I agree. We all come from many walks of life with very divergent beliefs and values. One of the most powerful aspects of these Internet forums is the opportunity to "meet and talk" to other people from the comfort and relative ananimity of our homes. Unfortunately, that ananimity also "dehumanizes" these very same people and it becomes easy to see one another as a listing of opinions and facts while forgetting that there are emotions, experience and all the other messy things that go along with real life human interaction.

I agree that generalized statements about all members of the community are not a sound foundation for an arguement. One of the hardest things about community forums is that they are opaque and it is easy to judge people without really knowing them.

Nymphy, I wasn't implying that you were arguing politics. I was amused by your Hillary comment, because you are not the first person I've heard make it. I find the current political situation in the US humorous right now, especially in Utah where I'm living. The majority of people in the state are freaking out because their candidate of choice has dropped out of the race and they have no idea what to do now. Many Utah Republicans hate McCain, and the Democrats in equal portion. For those of us who belong to neither, it is all a source of great amusement. You have been a member of MOL for a long time and are a frequent poster. I have always enjoyed and respected what you have to say.

I guess I'm poking sarcastic humor at the whole political machine as a coping mechanism to keep from screaming over the absurdity of it all. No matter what, November is gonna be interesting................

Is okay because at this point I'm not sure if I am or not. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to appologize to Rocky if I am.

So glad my head about to pop off is amusing!

Don't have to respect but enjoy, you must *shakes head*

Yeeeees... interesting.

Its just that it isn't something you see everyday. Not that I'm trying to stress you out or anything.

At this point, I think its time for chocolate and caffeine and not necessarily in that order.

*passes chocolate espresso cheesecake and a big mocha*

Russia and China do hate America, at least the comunist parts. It doesn't take reading the Bible to figure that one out! Ask any military man, veterans are the ones that know alot. And saying that it sounds like I'm the only conservative on here definetly wasn't me saying that nobody here likes me! I've got democrat friends and family but we still get along despite our political views. So I really do apologize that this topic got WAY off course! Waddya say we just drop it and move on to something "safer"?
MacNymph: Since the Bible doesn't mean anything to you, we really can't argue here becouse I believe it and apprarently you don't.

*heavy sigh* Maybe you should go back and re-read what I wrote. You came away way off on three different points and still didn't answer the question asked.

But then again, maybe that was diliberate.

The communism is long long gone.

Would you mind re-asking then, becouse I forget what you asked. Communism just happens to be In the Peoples Republic of China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam as of 2004. So you might want to get your facts streight before you start making statements like that. And what three points did I come WAY OFF on? Before you answer you might want to do your research and MAKE SURE you are 100% positive that you're right and I'm wrong, becouse if you get the facts and prove them for me, I'll agree with you.

Look, pal, you begin working on my nerves, while you said you weren't pushing your believes down our throats. I'm starting to think you do. And as far as I know, I am correct that the communism is long gone, there is no Soviet Union anymore. And China and America seem to get along fine and if they don't it surely ain't worldnews like the trouble in the Middle East. And if Asia hates America it's because of that stupid unnecessary war in the Middle East. But than again it's not only there it's all around the world.
But I thought we were talking gun control here and not world politics.

We are discussing MacGyvers views on guns and the reasons behind them aren’t we?

Well, MacGyvers views on the use of guns - The writers having him not use guns was a great tool. It made MacGyver use all sorts of other means to defeat the bad guys. To achieve this they gave Mac a backstory where he had a bad experience with guns in the past making him steer clear of them where possible in his life. If you ignore the blip in the pilot it works for me. Seeing someone shot and killed at that young age, even by accident, seems a logical reason for disliking guns and for wanting them out of irresponsible or immature hands. MacGyver’s friends didn’t all react the same as he did to the accident but everyone reacts differently to different events. I find it all believable enough.
Personally a lot of the times it seemed the MacGyverisms were a lot more dangerous and risky to all concerned than pointing a gun at someone. I find it more entertaining to watch him figure his way out of a puzzle than just pick up a gun and shoot his way out so I can let that slide for the sake of entertainment.

I feel a bit like my comments don’t really fit here or are stating the obvious but this thread has got me so confused I’m just not sure what to do with it!

I agree. What you are saying is true. It's for entertainment purposes and it's fine by me.
MacGyvergod: You think the war in the Middle East isn't necessery? I'm not going to comment anymore about my beliefs since it seems to bother you so much, but it is freedom of speech, expression, and religion. So unless you want to argue rights lets not get out of hand here. For me this subject is closed, I'm glad we had a very intresting conversation here. It's nice to get to see different views on things and debate them.

Since you say the subject is closed to you, I won't answer your question.

I don't mean to make enemies here. We all have the right to believe in what we want. You're against the war and I'm for it. Big deal! If I made you mad I am sorry but thats debating for ya. Thank you for your time on this topic, now I'm going to enjoy the rest of my day and watch my favorite show, bet you can't guess what that is!

I have been thinking (Me?! Think!? On a weekend?! *faints*) about MacGyver in the military. If MacGyver was drafted (they would draft someone like him wouldn’t they?) his natural talents and maybe his own will could have lead to him working bomb disposal. He would have been trained in firearms and although i'm sure he didn't like to use his gun overall it would helped him to understand their strong points and limitations. It would have helped him judge better what inventive alternative would outdo an armed man.
As for the pilot episode…If I had to accept it I’d say Mac evaluated what was around him - what was available to him and what would have happened if he had delayed a return in fire by given the gun to the pilot guy (who’s name escapes me) - and decided firing a shot so the bad guys had to remain in the cover of the plane was better than the alternative. The alternative being them getting closer where they could have done some damage or had damage done to them. ... Anyone buying it?

Ratty, your comments are very well thought out and well stated.

In the United States, the issue of gun control is a highly charged, emotional one as the debate on this thread has demonstrated. This issue has polarized opinion in the US to the point that rational, logical debate is nearly impossible.

Ratty, you have very neatly summed up MacGyver's reasoning behind not using guns. He suffered an emotional trauma at a young age; one that involved a gun. He disliked them and refused to use them.

MacGyver served in Vietnam. At that time, he could have volunteered for military service (unlikely, given his attitude regarding guns) or been drafted. MacGyver, even though he does not like or use guns, is a patriot and would have served his country to the best of his ability. In his case, his knowledge of chemistry and physics and his ability to improvise under pressure would have been a major assest to a bomb defusing squad.

So, to answer Ratty's question, yes you can dislike guns, and still serve in the military. Thank you for your clear insight into an issue that as we have seen from some of the previous posts, can sometimes cloud our thinking.

Okay, I'm thinking there's some kind of reading comprehension problem going on here.

I said...

and

to which you replied...

My three comments you were way off on:

1. I didn't say the bible doesn't mean anything to me. I said you saying "bible" and quoting scripture doesn't mean anything to me. Especially when it seems totally irrelevent to the conversation.

2. I didn't say "nobody likes me". I said "nobody here is like me."

3. And I didn't say communism is dead... I said "You have a gun and there aren't and Russians or Chinese sneaking outside your back door. What point are you trying to argue?"

You've been all over the map and still haven't answered this question.

Which makes this comment all the more irratating.

When you jump on the right track, or any track for that matter, an intellegent conversation might be had.

Not sure if anybody is interested, but since we're (kinda) talking Mac and guns - I recently read a fanfiction where Jack O'Neill was mistaken for Mac and kidnapped by Murdoc. And since Murdoc knows that Mac never carries a gun he didn't even bother to search him for a hidden weapon. Imagine Jack's surprise when he found that he still had it, and imagine Murdoc's surprise when "Mac" shot him to regain his freedom.

I thought that was a pretty funny idea

Talking about mistaken identity.

Well thank you for giving me my reading lesson. But like I said, I'm past this annoying conversation, subject is closed for me.

Hmm.. ok.. but can you at least tell us what the point was you where trying to make with all the communism stuff, cos I for one don't' see how that fits the topic of MacGyver and gun control.

I'm buying it Ratty!

As for the pilot opening gambit...yeah he fired the gun, but that doesn't mean he aimed at a person.

His military career...I've been thinking kind of along the same lines. It's obvious to me that Mac had training with guns...I have no doubt he could field strip a military rifle with the best soldiers out there...he'd just use the parts for something else! LOL! Anyone know off-hand if there was a draft around the time Mac would have joined up?

There was a lottery drawing on December 1, 1969, to determined the order of call for induction during calendar year 1970... which is the year Mac joined the bomb squad.

Now that's a great notion!

I obviously can't speak for MacGyverfan717, but I think I have an idea what he was trying to say, so I'll see if I can help clarify some.

To address, the first point- and to answer an earlier question, he's definitely not the only conservative on this forum. I side with a more conservative stance for the most part, though there are things from both a conservative and liberal viewpoint that I agree with. And I try not to think so much in lines of party lines (though again, for the most part, I would stick with Republicans because they tend to be more in line with my beliefs)- but I try to vote for the best candidate, no matter what the party.

Anyway, MacGyverfan717 is also not the only Christian on the forum. I am a Christian too and try to read The Bible every day. (It's the best selling Book in the world- I would definitely recommend it! I'm on my third round reading it straight through and it rocks my world more and more every time I read it!)

And so the reason any Christian on here might quote Bible verses to defend their point of view or at least explain it is simply because it is God's Word. As a Christian, my entire worldview and understanding of the world is based on what The Bible says. Therefore, in order to understand some of the points I might make, it helps to read in The Bible the passages that helped me form those convictions and beliefs.
That's why The Bible is relevant to the conversation- because it forms and shapes the views of Christians- and by looking at the Bible verses, you can understand the basis for an argument or position I might take as a Christian.

The second point seems to be a simple miscommunication problem.

And I think the original point MacGyverfan717 was trying to make with the reference to Communism and such is that if "Red Dawn" happened for real, would you be ready to take up arms with Patrick Swayze and Lea Thompson?
( Wolverines! LOL- It's a 1984 movie, if you're wondering.)
Anyway, the point is that if another nation were to invade America, then MacGyverfan717 would be ready to join the military and fight against the enemy to protect the freedom of his nation.
"Nobody wants war. I just want to keep the threat of war alive." (Okay- sorry, that was a quote from Lex Luthor in "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace"- another great movie! )
Obviously, no one really wants a war. But there are times when it is necessary to kill in the midst of battle- I think that was the point. Soldiers sometimes have to kill in battle, and yes, there are passages in the Old Testament that talk about this.
However, the Bible also says in The Ten Commandments that we should not murder because it is a sin.
I don't think when Joshua and the Israelites defeated the Canaanite nations that God got upset with them for killing in that case because it was in battle.
(Another thing to remember is that the Israelites were God's chosen people and sometimes He used them to bring judgment to a foreign nation that didn't worship Him and He actually commanded them to destroy the people of that nation. But that's part of His role as sovereign judge of the world, which gives Him all the authority in the world to do so if He chooses. But that's another topic.)

So anyway, I think the original point was that MacGyverfan717 feels that MacGyver would like to see all guns destroyed and not allowed for use by anyone- and he feels that people should be allowed to have guns for hunting and protecting themselves from criminals.

Well- that's what I understood of the conversation anyway.
Hope that helps clarify some things.

Please don't make such broad generalizations. Does anyone honestly believe that all the millions of Russians and Chinese hate Americans? That's paranoid thinking.

Those are not only overly broad generalisations, they're clichés. How many Russians or Chinese have you personally met and talked to?

Actually, I know and have talked with both people that have lived in Russia and China. And obviously, yes, the Cold War went on for many years- but I think with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the USSR- it really is over.
Though the reason cliches exist is because at least in some instances they are true, otherwise it wouldn't be such a cliche. So you could argue that there may be some Russians and Chinese who feel this way- but I don't know that I would say that's necessarily true for most of them- and certainly not true for all of them.
But I do know Christianity is not popular in China- many Christians have been tortured and/or martyred for their faith there- and yes, I know this from some personal friends who have lived there, in addition to the news.
Thank God for a country like the USA that guarantees the right to freedom of religion and the right to assemble peacefully. These rights, in addition to the right to bear arms (like I said- I've got two of them- on either shoulder ) are definitely rights to be held dear- because many places and people around the world do not enjoy them.