It was MacGyverfan717 who was making the sweeping declarations that thlayli and I are questioning. "Russia hates America for it's freedom. Communist China hates us too becouse of our christianity." (sic) -- this is propaganda being parroted.

During the Cultural Revolution, many Christians were indeed tortured or killed for their faith in China. So were a much larger number of Buddhists and Confucians. All religions were targeted during that period.

And the dominant negative emotion expressed by Eastern cultures towards the culture of Western Europe (including the US) is neither hatred nor envy, but contempt.

I don't know about Buddhists and Confucians, but Christians are still to this day being tortured and killed when their underground churches are found in China.
And sadly, that is true for many Christians in countries around the world.

I'm not defending MacGyverfan717's statements, but I am saying there's at least some truth in them. And propaganda or not, he's entitled to his own views. (shrug)

People are entitled to their own views.

I don't want to get into a stoning match with anyone, but I believe we have to be careful not to base our world-outlook too much on media--especially dramatized entertainment--or we will end up creating and perpetuating hysteria and imaginary persecutions.

I won't discuss my religious or political views. And I thank you kindly for not asking. I consider such things personal and extremely distasteful to discuss in these forums. We can discuss Spirituality over a cup of tea someday, once we've gotten to know each other better. But I wouldn't discuss my political views with someone I've known all my life! Politics (as a topic for discussion) is worse than religion!

I value peace, but I don't try to enforce it. I don't believe my viewpoint is the only Truth for all people. Communication is my goal, hypocrisy is my nemesis.

ON the topic of gun control:
I would use a gun to hunt food if I needed to. I would not have a gun just for the purposes of defense. Too many things can happen and the innocent suffer. I would rather be called upon to defend myself as I could, rather than own a deadly weapon that is indiscriminate and mortally dangerous that might someday kill a child or a dear friend.

I would feel more comfortable if handguns were removed from the face of the earth. Even in the hands of a trained professional with pure love in their hearts, bad things can happen, and when they do, everyone shrugs and says 'accidents happen'.

Well, if there were no handguns, there'd be no such accidents. There would still be bombs and poison and child abuse and disease, but there would be one less evil. And I think that means something.

ON the topic of MacGyver:
As much as I love a certain book or a movie (or a TV show), I will not confuse them with real life. (I've seen 'Planet of the Apes' and 'Attack of the Killer Tomatoes' but that doesn't mean that I have it 'in' for gorillas and orangutans, or an antipathy for marinara sauce! )

I like the values that I see in the character of MacGyver, but I know that not only are they projected by an actor and directed by another man, but that they are also projected by myself... I see in him what I want to see in myself. You might watch and see a completely different set of motives for the actions of this character, based on what you've known and experienced.

And you know what... we'd both be right.

Go human, not ape!
(Sorry, couldn't resist!)
I tried watching the "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" movie once- it's kinda funny and also pretty stupid, really. But I do remember liking the cartoon series as a child. LOL!

Finally!! someone gets it! I wish a few others would!

Nicely said. Pity it was so flippantly dismissed, but still some very good points made.

Interesting that I read this today. Consider the following from a letter to the editor, Salt Lake Tribune. (The original stats were published by the same paper in a cartoon by Pat Bagley, 4/19/2007)

1. A gun in the house is 22 times more likely to be used in a suicide, homicide, or accident than in self-defense.

2. A gun in the house triples the risk of homicide.

3. Shootings of Utah children occur 43% of the time at home and 40% of the time at the home of a neighbor or relative.

These statistics were quoted in the letter in response to a OpEd piece that appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune on March 4. The piece is titled "Arm Everyone" From the title, you can guess the author's opinion.

Unfortunately, people reduce their thinking to the lowest common denominator, accepting what is spoon fed by the mainstream media and accepting everything as face value. I know an awful lot about certain, very specific use chemicals that most people have never even heard of. These chemicals do occasionally make the news or are applied for dramatic effect in movies. The dramatic effect is uusually fictional and has very little, if any grounding in reality. The sad fact is that most people will accept a Hollywood film as gospel truth.

I have seen this over and over in real life, in the industry I work in and the area I live. Until people are willing to expand their horizons, and open their minds to the possibility that there is more than one acceptable viewpoint, things will not change.

Lothi, sounds like we have some things in common. As far as religion and politics go, I believe in and practice a live and let live policy: You have the right to believe whatever you want and I have the right to do the same. I try to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes, I just can't help myself. Thanks, Loth, for setting the example for the rest of us.

I'm working on it Rocky.

I just find this whole issue of gun control so ironic in the way it divides people. There are so many other real problems that need discussion and resolution, but we choose (and it is a choice) to get emotional and politicized over something like this.

actually I was referring to

It is quite amazing that people choose this, of all topics, to get so worked up about while theres many more immediate problems which get ignored.

Absolutely.

In the USA for example:

1. The cost of energy is up dramatically from last year, and likewise, the cost of consumer goods is also increasing.

2. The rate of inflation is outpacing the cost of living.

3. The botttom has dropped out of the housing market to the point that the Fed has stepped in to pass laws preventing foreclosure on mortgages that people can't afford and never should have been approved for in the first place.

4. The unemployement rate is the highest its been in about 7 years.

5. The value of the dollar is tanking worldwide, to the point that OPEC is considering other currency as the trade for oil.

6. Health care in the USA is at its greatest accessibility gap since the Great Depression. In the US, physicians are actually setting up "subscriber" offices, where clients pay a monthly fee for almost unrestricted access to doctors. This service is prohibitively expensive and ususally caters only to wealthy clients.

7. The cost of prescription mendications increased on average 7% in the past year. See above for why this is a problem.

8. Retirement accounts are raided by the corporations that are supposed to be managing them. True, the raiders usually get caught and prosecuted, but that provides little comfort to the retirees who's money has disappeared. Most of these people can't afford to retire and work for low-paying subsistence living jobs until they die.

One of the saddeest things I have ever seen is in my local WalMart. Go into that store after midnight, and almost everyone working is over 60.

9. Social security isn't. When the Social Security Act was signed into law, there was approximately 350 people paying in for every person drawing out. By the year 2030, it will be 2 paying in for each one drawing out. By the time I hit the legal age for withdrawing into this fund, it will no longer exist.

10. The national debt is growing at a near exponential rate. This alone should be criminal in that 8 years ago this country was operating with a budget surplus. The future of our children has been mortgaged in exchange for corporate welfare, tax breaks for people who least need them, and an unwinaable, unpopular war (Iraq).

These are just 10 of the major problems in the USA and I didn't even touch on environmental or education problems.

But what does it profit someone to gain the whole world and lose their soul?
Seems like God and eternity is something everyone should talk about and feel free to discuss. As Bob Dylan once said, you gotta serve somebody.

'Scuse me... I can't talk right now. I've got to go teach some pigs to fly.

My thoughts on gun control:

People should be free to own some types of guns, but there should be a rigorous screening process to keep them out of the hands of madmen like Seung-Hui Cho. I also do not see the need for private citizens to own semi- or fully-automatic weapons.

People regularly throw up the second amendment as a pro guns argument, but I wonder how many of those people actually know what the second amendment actually says.

How convenient it is that the NRA and the special interest lobby groups seem to have forgotten the rest of it.

And here's the latest on the gun control front (no pun intended):

There is a movement in the Federal government to require states that have both state and national parks, and allow loaded guns in the state parks, to re-write their laws to follow the same law in the national parks.

What this means is that if you live in a state where it is legal to carry a concealed loaded gun in a state park, you will soon be able to do the same in the national parks located in your state.

The National Park system has banned loaded weapons in national parks since 1936 as a measure to protect wildlife from poaching. Park rangers are adamently against this proposal, claiming that allowing weapons in the parks will increase poaching and violent crime in camping areas.

I agree. There really isn't any reason for people to be armed in National parks, but if you come to Utah, be aware that you may be confronted by more than just beautiful scenery. If people ar earmed with loaded weapons, that argument over your neighbor's noisy generator or who got to the prime camping spot first could very easily escalate into violence.

Yes, we own a gun and we have taken it with us into the back country. The places we go are not on national park land and carrying the gun is legal there. It is kept unloaded and locked up. In the 14 years I have gone camping with Jade, I can count the number of times we've actually pulled the gun out of the case on one hand and still have most of the fingers left over.

It goes back to some common sense, which sadly seems to be lacking with some of the lawmakers in this country.

Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean that you should.

Wow, what a horrible idea. I really don't see the need for that, and I agree that it would likely lead to increased crime, and probably accidents as well.

I took a hiking trip through several of the Utah national parks a few years ago. I can't imagine doing that now if it were legal for people to carry concealed guns on the trails. Frightening...

Wow, you have to have the Constitution down pretty cold to be able to regurgitate it on the spot!
But yeah- a lot of people do quote all kinds of things from Shakespeare to the U.S. Constitution to the Holy Bible without knowing all that's really contained within.

But for the record, I am pretty familiar with the Bill of Rights and most of the rest of the Constitution. I have a copy of both The Declaration of Independence and the United States of America Constitution together in a book that I got for a buck at a book store! Seems like that's a document every American should have and be familiar with.

Copies of these documents are available on line for anyone who can use Google.

As far as knowing them, I agree. The people who live in the USA and quote these documents should actually quote the entire passage; not just the phrase that supports their arguments.

The greatness of these texts lies within the wisdom of their words.........ALL of them. The flaw in these texts is that they are susceptible to misquote by those who would prejudice their argument with the intent of deceit and misdirection and negate sound logic and debate, instead replacing them with emotion and misdiection.

I find it highly ironic that the people who wrap their arguments in the Constituion, Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights rarely have studied government and policy beyond fifth grade. Even more ironic, many of them don't even vote on election day.

Well, that's not true for all of them- I mean, I'm sure some of them can tell Jeff Foxworthy they're smarter than a 5th. Grader.

But yeah, it is really bad to be using things for an argument without really being familiar with them.
And I definitely believe in voting. Doesn't matter so much about Republican or Democrat or Whig or Independent or whatever (as long as it's not Tory )- just vote for whoever you think the best candidate is. And if you don't vote, don't complain!

I just saw this article on msn.com and thought it was pretty timely!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23656329

It seems that the US Supreme Court is getting ready to closely examine the 2nd. Amendment to the Constitution and get a clear definition of what the "right to bear arms" fully entails.

Interesting... particularly this part.

Hmm- I don't think either the rights of Americans to own guns or to control gun ownership is quite as important as controlling gun usership.

Exactly. This is what the current gun control laws are trying to do..........control usership.

But until this country is willing to accept that times have changed since the Constitution was written and that the need for a fully armed citizenry no longer exists, I fear that true open dialogue on this topic will never be possible.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

Please don't make such broad generalizations. Does anyone honestly believe that all the millions of Russians and Chinese hate Americans? That's paranoid thinking.

I meant that the communist leaders, and probably some of the people are against America for our freedoms. I everyone over there doesn't hate us, I don't know that so I can't say that. I think that MacGyver has explained to you guys what I wanted to get across. Thanks alot!

You are welcome. And welcome back...........haven't seen you around in a while.

No problem, dude. Glad I could help.
Hope you had a great Easter!

Thanks everyone! And I hope all of your Easters were great also!