Well, this could be kinda related to MacGyver and maybe not so much...I figured I'd start it here and maybe when Rock sees where it goes he can decide to move it.

I'm curious who's seen the new Indiana Jones movie, and what you thought...especially in relation to MacGyver. I have to wonder if the writers are Mac fans, given a certain major element of the film. I know that sounds terribly cryptic but I hate to spoil anything for someone who has no idea!

So...talk about it! Anyone?

I haven't seen it yet. I have the worst head cold and we've decided we'll go see it as soon as I think I can sit through the movie without getting asked to leave because of a coughing fit.

You didn't say... have you seen it Amy?

I have seen Indy Jones twice now, and I think you must be referring to the parallels one can draw between 'Crystal Skull' and 'Lost Treasure of Atlantis'!

I found quite a few parallels between 'Crystal Skull' and the episode of Stargate SG-1 called 'Crystal Skull'... other than the title, of course!

And we won't go into the other major TV show that it reminds me of... for fear of additional spoilers!

Well, I've seen it too last week. Should've gone last night as well but my friend cancelled at the last minute. To be honest I didn't see any relation to Mac. The other way around yes. Mac is after all part Indiana Jones and part James Bond. As with every movie opinions are divided but to me this movie was just like Rocky Balboa. It's like visiting a good old friend after a long long time.

The movie is what it is and nothing more. Still with the campaign they're trying to promote the film as much as they can. It's like Spielberg is trying to regain the popularity Jurassic Park had with Indy. There're action figures now of Indiana Jones, army vehicles and you can even by a toy whip with sound effects. And I better admit it, I just couldn't let it though but I bought the sticker album.

I saw it....it was a good movie, and faithfully adhered to the quality of the trilogy it was based on. I have and always have preferred MacGyver to Indy but the two are similar characters to be sure.

*hugs Nymphy*

Yep I did see it. That's why I wanna talk about it...but I don't wanna spoil it for anyone!

I've actually seen that ep of SG1, so yeah, that's pretty obvious. Actually, I hadn't thought of parallels to Atlantis! I was thinking more specifically along the lines of The Stringer, tho.

Those who haven't seen it, spill what you know so Lothy and I can stop being so dang cryptic!!! LOL

I definitely saw more parallels to SG-1 than to Mac, given the whole alien angle (I kept thinking of Thor the whole time)! I liked how in the end, Indy's hat blows in the wind towards his son's feet, and for a moment you think, "oh, so now they're going to continue with the new generation," but then Indy picks up the hat and puts it on because it is rightfully his and he will always be Indy, no matter what age he is. The same thing goes for me with MacGyver--no youngster can replace the original!

*also wishes Nymphy well*

Thanks for bringing this up, Amy! Yes, I saw the movie, loved it -- and saw a lot of parallels to MacGyver.

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT. STOP HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE.

We can begin with Indy’s son – man, I saw that one coming a mile away. I have to say that I like Sam better; maybe because Sam's smarter.

And, of course, there are some lovely parallels between the characters: the unlikely and lively combination of action hero with a brain.

I admit I have been watching the buzz around the film, and then watched the film itself, with a very definite bias as regards the chances of a MacGyver movie being made, and with RDA in the title role. Hollywood has now found out that they can, indeed, have a blockbuster success with an action hero played, shall we say, by an actor of RDA’s generation. I don’t know if this will be enough, but I regard it as very, very promising. Forget sharks smelling blood in the water – that’s nothing to what can happen when Hollywood smells cash in the air.

OK hehe...someone else started spilling beans everywhere, so I'm not worried about it any more.

Loved it! Not sure where i rank it in my Indy list quite yet...but then after recently seeing all of them again (Raiders and Temple for the first time in maybe 20 years) I'm not sure how I rank any of them now. lol.

I managed to stay away from spoiler threads discussing KOTS before I could see it myself, so I didn't really know much about it. So anyway, here's some things that stuck out to me:

Mushroom cloud...terrifying. I think my mouth hung open until Indy got scrubbed you know where...lol.

Warehouse...As soon as they showed it I said to hubby "You know they're gonna show the Ark..." And I was right. That was so cool.

Russians instead of Germans...I think that was a really great way to update...I mean 20 years later and after WWII the Nazi's are kinda displaced as a huge threat, so it made sense.

Indy's military career...Hmmmm. An interesting twist to the character, but I keep wondering how it fits. 20 years ago he was a professor at Marshall College (right?) and I always figured he was in his 40s somewhere by Crusade. I forget the details about his military experience, but I got the impression it was somewhere in that 20 years...is that realistic? Especially since he's a tenured professor? I dunno. I'm nitpicking about something I don't know much about. So now I get to puzzle through how both my favorite action heroes worked a military career into peculiar little lives.

Indy and Marion tying the knot...I was glad. Out of all the women she was the best fit. I only read one post before the movie that alluded to Marion and Indy's chemistry in the movie and the guy was also talking about Raiders, so I crossed wires and it didn't register that she was actually in Kingdom until Mutt called his mother "Mary."

Mutt as Indy's son...I saw it coming not too far in. I had mixed feelings about it...I liked the chemistry between them and generally liked Mutt. This was the major element I mentioned that makes me wonder if the writers are MacGyver fans. I can't decide if it was coincidental, if they were paying homage or ripping off The Stringer. The similarities are pretty uncanny...Kid comes along after umpteen years, they get mixed up in an adventure together and find out they're really father and son. They go through the delicate dance of suddenly being son and dad, end up working together really well in spite of some minor butting of heads. Kid saves dad's butt, dad saves kid's butt, they beat the bad guys together and live happily ever after. The similarities don't make this aspect of KOTS bad...I just have mixed feelings about it, just like I have with Mac and SAM.

The "passing the torch, I mean hat" scene... I had mixed feelings about that, too. I kinda got a little goosebumpy when Mutt almost put on Indy's hat...not sure if it was a "go for it" goosebumpy or "hey he can't do that" goosebumpy, but goosebumpy nonetheless. I think I should win some award for most uses of the word "goosebumpy" in one sentence... In a way, it felt like a passing of the torch and a death knell to Indiana Jones as a main character (maybe?), but at the same time it was clear that Indy's not ready to toss in his hat...ha. Good moment and it leaves a lot up in the air for the future, I think.

Indy meets spacemen...meh. I'm not into the whole alien thing. I lean more toward a supernatural explanation of all that...but I won't get into theology here. I enjoy Star Trek, Stargate and same with this movie. It was interesting to see it collide with Indy and it was done in a huge way...I mean Indy tackled the Ark and the Holy Grail...Aliens was a logical leap, especially for the 50s era. And of course, Mac kinda dealt with the alien thing, too.

Anyway, I was thinking of the specific elements paralleling Mac, not the overall movie. I'm with MacBeth about movie possibilities. I read somewhere that Kingdom tied or came close the the record set by Pirates of the Carribean 3 for opening weekend. That makes me hopeful that powers that be and RDA will realize that if Indy was so well received then a Mac movie done right could be huge. I realize RDA has problems with his knees and feet, but...one last hoorah? Please?

LOVE that avatar, Amy!

The answer to the question lies in the TV series ‘The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones’. It gives a detailed account of his life from age 10 to 22… including the references to the Mexican Revolution.

***SPOILERS FOR "YOUNG INDIANA JONES ADVENTURES***

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Indy basically left home before he’d finished high school (which is why he was so vexed with Mutt once he found out he was Indy’s son) and had got involved in the Mexican Revolution (due to an ill-advised weekend excursion to Mexico which led to him being kidnapped by Pancho Villa).

After extracting himself from that mess, he then went overseas to fight in WWI, joining the Bulgarian Army because America was not yet involved in the war, and because he was too young to enlist—the Bulgarians did not ask too many questions about age, nationality, etc..

After the first WW is over, he returns home and goes to college to study Archeology. We get to follow his life up until he is 22. So Indy is a WWI veteran of about 2-5 years (I’ll have to check again for exact dates) before he actually starts college.

Oh! and he was in the Bulgarian Secret Service, which is where he learned many of his particular skills. His gift for languages and cultures began when he was 10; his father took him and his mother on a world tour (he was a lecturing professor), which is why Indy always seems to be able to talk to someone, no matter which exotic country he finds himself in.


The TV series is really delightful. I highly recommend it for serious Indy fans… although many of the movie-length episodes are NOT serious at all! LOL! Some of the guest ‘historic figures’ that he meets are quite amusing!

I’m sure it hasn’t escaped your attention that Mac and SAM prefer not to use their given names, just as Indiana and Mutt have both named themselves after a dog!

The X-File factor. I liked this very much. It is completely canon in the Indiana Jones Universe, where magic and sorcery are as real as Nazis and politics. And when dealing with this South American ancient culture, the topic is unavoidable. I really loved the way they dealt with the subject.

Yes, please! Yes yes yes yes yes!
I love to watch youthful RDA as Mac, running and jumping and flying and fighting… but in truth what I love the most about MacGyver is how he used his mind. I think that RDA can handle it, since he breathed the life into the character from the beginning.

As Harrison/Indy said: “it’s not the years… it’s the mileage.”


OH! And the parallel between 'IJKCS' and 'Lost Treasure of Atlantis'... for those who've seen both movies...

... Knowledge is the Treasure.

That means 'vomit' in my language but of course I know what you mean!

They should've done it that way in Kill Zone. I would've like to see Mac's face when they would do that to him.

That was my first thought. I figured: The Commies are looking for the Ark?

The most logical thing. Though the Nazi's were much cooler, (and really don't get me wrong saying that) I mean with Raiders and Crusade, you more had the feeling you were in a race of Good vs Evil. But than again it's set after WWII, so you're right. Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine also involved The Commies in 1947 so. A logical matter.

I think they even called him Colonel Jones. Strange thing is though, can't remember if it's in the books as well but according the games anyway he was a professor at Barnett College. As far as his military career is concerned, I can understand that especially in the heat of the war, 1942-1945, they appealed on him a couple of times. After all in Raiders of the Lost Ark he was doing a job for the government and delivered and got payed for it but didn't seem to be happy about it what they did with the Ark. For all we know it were all archeological and biblical matters just as in Raiders and the Crusade with exceptional spying here and there. Or... he took on the same assignments and missions as he did in the first World War but what those exactly were I can't say, I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. Though I know he escaped several times out of prison camps and worked with the Russians before.

She at least wasn't a screamer nor a traitor and she wasn't affraid to fire guns. Did expect more a reunion à la Raiders style with a probably well deserved blow.

With this a lot of the early rumours I heard on the film got confirmed. One of those was the whole evil twin brother they thank God kept out. One of other rumours was that they wouldn't do the father-son thing because they said it wouldn't be fair to the fans if they knew that Indy would've knocked up some girl and just left her than. The fact he didn't know... The chances that David Koepp is a MacGyver-fan. Why not? Could be a coincidence though. Though it might look like the same story, the situation is different. Sam always knew that Mac was his father, he just needed it to be confirmed. Here neither of the two knew.
Just as with Sam and Mac, I can live with it.

Had the same feelings. It was like 'the new Indiana Jones' was born. The same way as it happened in Crusade. After Indy's very first adventure, he had everything: the whip, the scar, the fear of snakes and in the end the hat and Indy was born. Than whoosh 26 years later.
I did feel something magic when the door blew open and the hat rolled to Mutt. It was like in Harry's Will with the sudden wind and the four notes side by side riddle got solved.
This sure let air for the future and I know there are rumours about Mutt being the future for the Indiana Jones series (a possible sequel) with Indy playing more of the father role as Sean Connery did in The Last Crusade. I think I can live with it as long Harrison has his equal share of stunts and swapping punches. He has proven he still has it. He can still run and fight and swing on his whip. That he can't do anything hard physical is only naturel. Though I would've liked to see Indy kicking Irina's Spalko's butt. He probably would've gotten his kicked instead. But Indy vs. Spalko would've been nice.

And again I can't agree more. Of course everybody is "against" it because paranormal science is not archeology. I think by the time the 50's arrived, you can say like most things could've been discovered. And in the 50's things aren't done like they did in the 30's. They're nearing an era where in 30's adventures are made in films. Everything is become more and more modern. The first flashlights for instance. So also with this aspect I can live with. It's not because it's futuristic and beyond our understanding, that it can be ancient. Who knows how old all those alien races are. In the book of Independence Day they say the spaceships were build 9000 years ago. Just to give an example. Futuristic or not, it's ancient as well and it probably got legends behind it too and that's why I think it's drawn so close to archeology. Hitler was obsessed with the occult, Lenin apparently with paranormal science.

I guess we have to keep on hoping.

As far as my opinion is concerned... just as I said before the movie is what it is and nothing more and probably was meant to be more. It's nowhere at the level of it's predecessors. But that's ok, the movie's got his own level. Where the others got more than 8 out of 10. This one get's a well deserved 7. There are indeed some things that are noticeable. For instance though fights enough, I missed a fight like in The Temple of Doom with a building suspense and in the end the hero fights back with his theme song playing along and he lives the fight another day.
The movie starts with a blast, though can't help it but say it, it indeed weakens somewhat near the end. Now where exactly, is it the new settings, the new era? Not quite. That we now face Commies instead of Nazi's is only naturel. It's just time and age catches up on everyone and it doesn't matter if you drank of the Holy Grail or not. It's just what it is and to me it's a good movie. With a job well done of Steven, George, David, Harrison, Shia, Karen, Cate and composer John Williams.

Haven't read every word of this thread, as I have to get back to work, BUT...

Saw Indy 4 yesterday. One word sums it up.

MEH.

Wasn't awful, but would I watch it again? Probably not.

I've seen Last Crusade a million times, Raiders a thousand, Temple a hundred, so to speak...but this one...just didn't do much for me. My poor hubby, a major fan, just sat there with his hands on his face mortified through the end.

In the words of one reviewer online...Lucas just pooped on my childhood...AGAIN.

I'm not so harsh, as I wasn't expecting much, but...like I said...MEH.

'Meh... meh... meh...' Did somebody brought a goat in here? Maybe we should feed that to the Rex.

Strange thing is for someone who is pretty extreme to protect his heroes like me, I'm always pretty satisfied on how things turned out... so far. It didn't happen that an other actor plays the hero upon till now. Lethal Weapon 4, Rocky Balboa, Die Hard 4.0, John Rambo, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull they didn't disappoint or unsatisfied me. OK, Lethal Weapon 4 is perhaps not a good example since I was only 11 at the time and not as far as I am now in my movie insanity but to me that was the coolest and the first brutal action flick I saw. It's also one of the very last actioners of that time. On Rocky Balboa, I was going nuts. I really looked forward to it though I didn't expect much of it. I knew it was going to be a slow sad story but boy was I satisfied. Maybe on all those late sequels Rocky Balboa was the best of them all. It had the most decent script. On Die Hard 4 I was patient and satisfied what I saw. Bruce Willis might be over 50 but he's healthy and I think still trains every now and than. He really takes care of himself. That's how I think it all was for the others. I waited patiently for them to come. John Rambo was anyway better than it's predecessors, more brutal and grisly. Again satisfying and you know my opinion on Indy 4 now.

Though I can't let it but to come back on my point to where the film went wrong. Some say it's the script. David Koepp has a name in Hollywood, he wrote Jurassic Park with Michael Crichton and I think he wrote Minority Report and War of the Worlds. Now if they say the script doesn't live to the expectations, I wonder what Frank Darabont had written. Because everyone seemed happy about it except George Lucas. That fact that Lucas turned down Darabont's script hit a nerve with him and Darabont wants nothing to do with Lucas for the time being. What perhaps could've been better is having Koepp and Darabont collaborate and writing a script together.

Other things peoples are bothered with is the usage of CGI. Spielberg himself said he was not going to use it but use stuntmen instead. CGI prevailed because the ants, the apes, the mole and the demise of Irina Spalko were completely computer generated. While in it's predecessors real animals and bugs were used and the horrific demises were not computer generated. I don't think Toht's death or the angels would've looked that good if they used computer effects nowadays and that for a film that is 27 years old.

That movie is hailed with mixed feelings and thoughts that's always but this way? Maybe Spielberg has to get his act back together again or it just didn't turn out the way it was expected. OK, Hook wasn't much of succes either but Spielberg struck back big time by releasing Jurassic Park and Schindler's List in the same year. I hope his role as director isn't over. He probably won't stop directing but maybe he needs to get his act back together though I don't see any clouds over it or too much. Spielberg usually works by releasing an adventure flick of some sort for the main audience and than releasing a more controversial film. Jurassic Park and Schindler's List in 1993 than I think it was The Lost World (1997) followed by Saving Private Ryan (1998) (though I see that one for both kinds of film commercially and controversial) And 2005-2006 War of the Worlds and Munich. Who knows what's next? A movie about the Olympics in Berlin in 1936?

Anyway just a last piece of advice I wanna give especially on films like this. Whenever there's a sequel coming up of series that ended over ten years ago and they still use the original actor never ever expect too much or the same from back than. Times changes and catches up on everyone. So what if he was 46 in the Crusade and 65 in this one? We're all 19 years older.

Maybe it's because I try to remain neutral on these kind of films I always end up pretty satisfied. And that starts when the idea of the film is getting official and pre-production starts. From than on already, I remain neutral. Sure keeping an eye on the course of the events but further I refuse to know things about. I don't wanna know anything from the script only than I need to know when it's released and when I can view the trailer. That's all further it's to remain completely neutral and not to read anything the magazines or find out rumours on the internet.

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was the movie I've been waiting to see for over a decade!!! (Seriously, the planning for this movie has been going on at least that long- and there's been talks of it even longer)
I'm as much an Indiana Jones fan as a MacGyver fan and so I've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade numerous times. I love them all and I happily add this movie to the series! That was so incredible to see Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones in theaters- finally!!! (I was a bit young to see any of the first 3 in theaters )
And The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles is a great TV series too- a fun way to introduce history to kids. And yes, there is an episode where Indy rides with Pancho Villa and I thought it was awesome that they referenced that in the movie. And of course, the classic Raiders march was there in full effect- that's Indy's theme song, you know that's not gonna change. It was cool seeing a glimpse of the Ark of the Covenant in the warehouse. And the crystal skull thing was a neat artifact to go after- and the alien connection was interesting too. It would have been really funny if the alien had been one of ET's race or from Close Encounters of the Third Kind- or even a Wookie or Ewok.
But yeah- aliens were almost expected in a movie set in 1957- and especially when they made reference to the "weather balloon" landing in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947- I like that they had a real life basis to use in the movie. (Although I don't really believe aliens landed in 1947, of course.)
And they paid tribute to Denholm Elliot- the actor who portrayed Marcus Brody and who died in 1994. It was nice to see his picture in there, as well as Sean Connery as Henry Jones, Sr. And it was great seeing Marion Ravenwood back! Though I do wonder about the continuity since on the TV show, old Indy has a daughter- though perhaps that's his daughter-in-law. (But since the George Hall scenes have been excised from the DVDs, I think George Lucas has pretty much thrown out the 90 year old Indy continuity).
And there was a couple of scenes of Indy grabbing his hat- because he never loses that or his whip. And that was really cool when Indy snapped his whip and whipped the gun over to Mac. And of course seeing him swing on his whip some. And he's still using Michaelson as his text book! And they worked in his fear of snakes- and of course, don't forget the swarm of ants scene. (And of course, I thought of the scene on MacGyver in "Trumbo's World".) And a few scorpions were in there too- that'd make for a cool creature scene. And there were great chases and action scenes- everything was just great really. And I loved the ending scene, with Marion and Indy getting married- Mutt's there as their son- and Mutt tries to put on Indy's hat- and Indy snatches it away and puts it on his head! That was a great ending!

And by the way, I've already heard George Lucas saying he has an idea for Indiana Jones 5- and yes, Harrison Ford has said he'd be up for it!
(Though you can expect to see a similar deal to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, with Indy more in the role of Henry Jones, Sr. and Mutt more like Indy. And that would be interesting- as long as Harrison Ford is still there as Indiana Jones- I'd be there for it!)

If adventure has a name, it must be Indiana Jones!

I know what you mean. I think out of all of them, I would've liked to see The Temple Of Doom the most at the theater at the time. When they make him drink the blood is I think the darkest scene of the film. The face of Short Round is priceless when they're holding the puppet over the flames.
Unfortunately Indy already had been through two adventures before I was born and the third one came out when I was 3.

Can't wait to have that one on DVD.

Yep through. Now that's what I call a neat cameo.

Wookie, Ewok? Star Wars races? Good they didn't do it. Maybe on another way after all R2-D2 appears on a wall in The Well of Souls and there was also Club Obi Wan.

Another nice touch but didn't Elliot die a year after Crusade, I thought it was 1990.

Nope he only left it once on the ship in Raiders when he jumped ship.

Kinda of odd to see him getting married. But it was nice way to tie to loose ends. It's like he can settle down now and enjoy his retirement. But I think the call to wear his hat and his whip and his entire outfit is something he can't ignore.

That should be: 'Adventure has a name and it's Indiana Jones!'